The Truth About Job Hunting

What if the hardest part of job hunting isn’t your CV - but being truly seen?

In this episode, Katy Murray, Co-Founder of Rewired, shares the honest truth about navigating today’s job market and why so many talented people are overlooked. Through her work building a platform that helps individuals be recognised for real capability — not just career history — Katy is reshaping how opportunity is accessed and shared.

She opens up about what she’s learned as a founder: progress happens fastest when opportunity is shared, not guarded. Giving back doesn’t deplete your network — it strengthens it. When you advocate for others, you build a powerful circle of people who want to see you succeed.

This conversation dives into confidence, capability, and community — especially for women. Because when women truly understand their potential and actively support one another, momentum builds. And when we rise together, we rise faster. If you’ve ever felt unseen in your job search, this episode will change how you think about opportunity — and how to claim it.

SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.

Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.

Transcript

Welcome And The Job Hunt Truth

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Bakeman, the Managing Director of Community and Partnership at Free Can Code, and today we're discussing the truth about job hunting. What if the hardest part of job hunting isn't your CV but being truly theme? I've got the wonderful Katie Murray, co-founder of Rewired, with me today to share the honest truth about navigating today's job market and why so many talented people are overlooked. Welcome, Katie. So lovely to have you on here. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

It's a pleasure to have you here. This topic is something that our community talks about a lot. So it's going to be very topical with them. But we'd love to get started with a little bit about you, if that's okay to set the scene.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Yeah, so as you said, I'm co-founder of Rewired. We are a startup. We're just about to launch, actually. We're a job platform that helps candidates find jobs and helps organisations find the right people for their roles. So currently, candidates have an absolute nightmare, as probably a lot of your community are aware that they have to apply for hundreds of jobs and they never hear back and they don't know what they're doing wrong. And at the same time, organisations can't find the right people, they often miss hire, they're having really long hiring processes with lots of stages. It's really like a painful process where no one's winning. So we've created a platform that kind of joins candidates and organizations, and it's a system that better identifies talent so that both can find what they need in the process. Before I transitioned into my own businesses. And then I've had a couple of ventures since then as well. And yeah, we've been in the hiring tech industry for like three or four years now. And um yeah, we're excited to get launched. Right. I have so many questions from what you just said.

Meet Rewired And The Hiring Problem

SPEAKER_01 2:19

First off, being a founder, that's not for the faint-hearted. Um what happened there? How did you uh uh what happened? How did you start your own business? How did you um go go into that? What what happened? Please tell me all about that and your experience.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yes, of course. And I think uh partly, you know, I've always wanted to have my own business, but I think you do get, I think it's hard to come out of the employment um or being employed because you have that security. And so you kind of I want to say you get sucked in, but you know, it's it's not a small thing, it's like having that security of a paycheck. It's like you know, we need it, don't we? So it takes a lot, I think. It's brave to start your own business and to step away from that. And for me, it didn't really happen until I had my second child. And um, I know a lot of people in your community have kids. It's like that you the pressure builds, and suddenly the balance of like commuting, working long hours, or um, even the paycheck, it's it's suddenly it doesn't all work. So I started to grow my businesses whilst whilst I was working um and ease myself out of employment. And I you know, it hasn't it hasn't been easy. It's it took a few years before I started to make it pay. Um, and yeah, it's it, you know, it that uh that working and running a business at the same time is is you know, it's not easy, or none of it's easy, is it? The job's not easy, the business isn't easy, but um, yeah, doing doing both and and young kids as well, you know, it's definitely lots of juggling. But funny enough, I look at that version of me then and I had so much energy when I started out compared to now. I sometimes think, who was that woman? Um, but yeah, I mean it's nothing, you know, I love it. I think it's there's nothing quite like being a founder. Like I just love the mix of things that we get to do and having dipping your toe in a bit of everything with the business, it's not just one thing. I think I always struggled with being um sort of putting myself under a certain category. I kind of liked a bit of a lot of things. I like problem solving, and it's like, oh yeah, okay, this is the job for me, like startup founder, suddenly it all makes sense. Um, because it is so multi-skilled and it is so like, okay, what how are we going to solve this? This has happened, like what do we need to do? Um, so yeah, it just works for me.

How AI And Easy Apply Break Hiring

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Love that. It it's something um that we we talk about a a lot on here, and starting your own business is um quite a challenge and and it really does um make you as a person as well. It takes a certain person um to want to do that, and yourself to go on to launch like four of them um as well, instead of thinking, no, I've done one and I've dipped my toe in and I'm not gonna do that again. Um that takes a certain type of person um as well. So we I never know what people are going to say on here. Um and we always just love to hear people's journeys and that it doesn't have to be the traditional way into the tech industry or or anything like that. That when people leave universities, I think their career has to be kind of one-way, very traditional. Um, you have to know what you're gonna do straight after university, for instance, and that is gonna be your whole career, and it's so much better to hear when people have been moving around and trying things and that it doesn't have to be set in stone, and um you know, circumstances change as well. People have families and they want to um be a bit more flexible, um, and the more that we hear people that are doing that, the more it inspires other people to think actually, I could I could go on and do that, um, but obviously very, very challenging as well. Um, so we are going to chat about something that I know is um super interesting for our community um because especially now with AI tools being brought into recruitment, uh as many of our community have been asking us about how to be seen, how to stand out. Um, like you said, you can be applying for hundreds and hundreds of roles and still not being seen. Um so uh we're gonna cover off some of that today. So um you say that being seen is one of the biggest challenges in job hunting. Um what's really broken in uh the what's really broken in the traditional hiring process? Um, and what are employers missing when they focus too heavily on CVs and career history?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, well, there's a lot there to unpack, to be honest. But we'll start with um, you know, part of it is AI, AI coming in, and you've got AI use by the candidates. So candidates generating CVs that can look pretty good and look like really polished, and you you know, you get rid of all your like typos or grammar problems that might have been there, they sound amazing and chuck them in the applications, um, but they might not have really the right information. And actually, when it comes out the other end and the hiring managers looking at them, everybody's got the same AI-generated CVs that kind of sound okay. So it's quite hard for them to um identify, you know, what makes someone stand out, what would make them good for the role. And then they're having to have really long hiring processes, doing assessments and multiple interviews and telephone interviews, um, just to try and understand who's the right person. But still, like 60% of businesses regularly mishire, so it's not really happening. Um, then you've got like C AI used in the application process. So, for example, like the easy apply systems, which allows people to pretty much just apply with one click. So it gives them the kind of false sense of security that, oh, I've just applied to hundreds of jobs this morning. But actually, quite often those applications aren't really getting through. They're just kind of being junked. And when they do get through, they're kind of fairly low quality in terms of the information that's there. So they don't really, they don't really work. Um so yeah, it's like a mass of poor information that's being pumped into the system, and like the employers are just trying to sort through it the best way they can, but it doesn't really work. So the poor candidates are like chucking out all this volume, all these applications, never hearing anything back, and thinking, well, I've I've failed or I've been rejected or I'm invisible, because you know that's what you'd assume. But actually, they're just not getting through the process, they're not being seen. So there's quite a lot going on there, and no one's really saying, actually, you need to do this, you need to change how you're applying. Some of the systems you're using aren't working, and it's actually just a functional thing, it's not about you personally. Um, so what really needs to happen is they probably focus their applications a lot more, like do less, but make them really, really good quality, like really focus on getting the information relevant to the job they want to apply for. And don't apply for lots of jobs that are outside of their skill set because the chances are you won't get the job, don't have the the right skills, but really focus on ones that are relevant to you, your experience, and what you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yes, because it you're always told as well, if you're applying for jobs, make sure that you tailor your CV and tailor the cover letter. And um I'm curious now because um a a recruiter told me that recently about um CVs being written by AI, um which is your first point. And and I'm curious to know do recruiters just know that now when they land in their inbox and they go, yep, it's another one, that's chat GBT is just writing all of the same CVs? Is it that obvious that it's just hasn't been tailored at all? And that's that's not a good start.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, I think so. I think it it's well known, and the conversations we have with a lot of people is, you know, any kind of space is AI is screening AI basically, like AI is generating all this content and it looks good, you know, on paper, but actually it's there's no depth to it, and it doesn't really necessarily reveal much about the person. So it's like the kind of this the experience-led, skills-led um information that we've always used is just not working anymore. It's like we need this extra layer of information about people to really understand them, but the the system doesn't provide that. So it's kind of like we're in this mess of poor information, poor quality information that we can't really move beyond with the current process.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, especially if um if there is uh AI tools being used in in the process as well, um, of the recruitment process. For instance, if you're a uh um a woman in tech and you've had a career break or you know you've got gaps in your CV because you've left to have family or or anything else, um, you know, you're going to get um disregarded in in that process already. You it's you know, it's going to be set, unfortunately, for certain things that it's looking for. Um and for companies that are saying they want to increase the amount of women in tech that they have in their companies, that's not going to happen if that AI tool has been set to uh um um uh to find certain people. Um if just that you know some companies, hopefully companies don't go backwards as a result of that because they're just chucking out CVs that they really should have been reviewing with a set of human eyes, um if they wanted to increase diversity, for instance.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, I mean that's it. I mean, unfortunately, the traditional way of looking at experience is kind of the the length of time you've done a specific job, that specific job, and then where you've worked. And so a lot for a lot of us, especially women who often have career breaks and have kids and all the rest of it, um, we are often the ones that have like um kind of a different skill set and changing skills and changing experiences, and maybe we've not had the long length of time at organizations, and it kind of penalizes us that the normal system. So, I mean, both me and my co-founder, for example, have I call myself a career shapeshifter, I've done a lot of different things, but because of that, we've got really, really rich experience, and we've got, you know, we we could offer a lot in any job role, but actually in a system we'd be penalised because we haven't, I haven't got 10 years working in a marketing agency, for example, which is what the system, the hiring system, would prefer to see for me if I was to go for a loosely marketing-based role, which is my my biggest skill set. So it's it's it's really frustrating, and it's certainly it's not it's not preparing the world for where the world is going with AI, where we are gonna have to adapt more and change more. And I think we're gonna have to have a wider range of skills just to do any job. I think the days of being well, I want to say accountant, but probably accountant will stay fairly the same. But you know, having a specific job role where you only do one set of skills, I think that's gone. I think it's gonna change rapidly and we'll be multi-skilled in all roles.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yes, definitely. There are some companies out there as well, and a lot of them are partners of ours that are actively seeking women in tech and also um understanding that the recruitment process is not straightforward. You will get a lot of, for instance, our community members who might not tick all of the boxes, but that employer can train them up in other areas. Um, there those um uh employees are going to be more loyal as well, um, then they're not gonna job hop. Um, so it's useful to invest in people as well if you want to to bring about change in your hiring process. Um, but some companies do go with the easy route and just think, why are we bringing about change? Why isn't anything happening?

Proving Impact Beyond A CV

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah, it's I mean, because it's so it's at a system level, and it's not even just about the hiring tech, it's like you know, the basic stuff that sits belief beneath that, you know, is the CVs and the information on the CVs. And although we kind of know that it doesn't work, like there's not many people that are changing it. And it's you know, as soon as you start to talk about changing it, people are going, but it's always been like that. Yeah. It's like, yeah, and it's not working. We need to change that. Yeah. And that, you know, I think before when there were less people applying for job roles and you didn't have so much online application, and um, it did work because it was a good way of kind of getting to getting an idea of that person if they were gonna be a match for the job. Of course, it makes sense, but now it's so much more complicated. And I think people's human skills, their kind of adaptability, their ability to get on with each other, the communication, that kind of thing, it's gonna be more and more important. And that's kind of harder to show on a on a CB. Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Um, because I wanted to ask as well, um, as the co-founder of Rewired, um, what have you learned about capability? Um, that most people they tend to underestimate themselves. We've actually found that a lot with women in tech um who are underestimating uh their skills and whether or not they think they should apply for roles. Are there patterns that you see in talented individuals uh who struggle to recognise their own value?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, for sure. And I think part of it is like that that modesty, that struggle to recognise, but part of it's also overwhelm because we're like living data centers of our own information. And sometimes it's hard to recall all the things we've done. And if we can, we tend to think in history what we did as opposed to what was the impact, you know, what change did I make in that role or that situation? You know, what what impact did that have on the organization or the people? And then was that impact, was it, you know, um a sales or money impact, or did I save, you know, did I save money, or did I change that person? You know, it it these are the things that people need to think about, and it's quite a lot to kind of to consider and kind of draw out of ourselves. So it isn't easy, and it really is kind of trying to find ways of drawing that information out. And sometimes, because, like we said, the the way hiring is done tends to be that very linear historical way. We tend to think, oh, well, have I ever been a manager of people or or whatever? But actually, sometimes you can not have been that, but have some of the skills that you need to do that role. So, for example, if you've never been a people manager and the job you're applying to is like an early management position and you've not got that yet, you might have managed a project where you were several months managing a team and you had goals and you reached those goals and you had an outcome. So if you can build some of that into the story you tell by your CV or however you're applying for your job, there's ways to make up the experience. And when I say make up, I don't mean literally make it up. Like I don't recommend that, but you probably have got more experience than you can recall when you first think about it. So, always the way I would recommend is to look at the job description, see what they're actually asking for, because ultimately that's that's what they want, um, depending on how good they are at doing their job description, and try and work out, go backwards, try and work out if you've got those skills, thinking a little bit below beneath the surface and not the obvious, and then how you can really demonstrate them. So, what was the impact you had in that situation? You know, can you quantify it? Those sort of things, because we've always done a lot more than we initially think, and we have to just start thinking out of the box of it was exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah, yes, I agree because if people are going to be using AI tools to write their CVs anyway, you might as well ask it to help you to tell your story, or at least to give you some pointers, because most people don't know that they have a really good story to tell. And on on here, we love to chat with people that have really weird roots into tech and how they did it and how they told their story. Because I remember one lady she said to me, she was a professional um ballerina, and um she said, uh, when I moved into tech, telling my story, I had to find a way to say that even though I've um been a professional dancer for all this time, those transferable skills of discipline and hard work, and she said when I did find myself in a position where I landed um a great role, it was just being able to articulate all of the good things that I've done, even though they weren't actually connected to being in tech. And um sometimes people struggle to to do that. And if you're gonna ask uh uh a chat GPT or another tool to to help you, but ask it to help you. How do I tell my story? How do I stand out?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, that's great advice, and I I do think this is where these um, you know, these the language models are are great, uh just filling in the gaps and kind of and shaping something out, and you know, I I think that they they often see more than than we do, and I think that's why the women particularly like having conversations with them because they get that feedback that we often find it hard to articulate and we don't even get it from our friends and family sometimes. Um, and it's that kind of yeah, not that emotional detachment, that just the kind of pure facts. So is it's really good for that, even if it's not quite right, you want to use it as it is, just to kind of start to flesh out and then ask it some questions, see if you can like refine it down a little bit.

Community, Generosity, And Better Networks

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, but you you're right just as a as a starter, um, because again, you don't want to fall back into that trap of your the those CVs that you can tell being written by AI. Yeah, um and you've just gone gone back into that pool of people again. Um so you talk about sharing opportunity instead of guarding it. Um how has giving back directly impacted your own career journey?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Um good question. I I think that I think there's a there's a kind of we have this underlying belief that there's not enough to go around. Um I think it's quite hard to move out of that. And we often think that if I if I have something or somebody else has something, then I can't have it, it's like me or them. Um but it it isn't. It isn't the case. I mean, humans, we're completely creative and generative. So I really believe that if we if we could like, for example, if I want to do a project about women in tech, or I've got this idea for a blog or a, you know, a podcast or whatever, you know, I'd love to talk to you about it. And I probably have some ideas about that, and you will have your own ideas and we'll come together. And those ideas will create new ideas. You know, it's not limited. So the more we kind of break free from that kind of limiting belief that we won't there won't be enough to go around, the more we can create new things. Um, and just the more I've opened myself up to community, whether that's on LinkedIn or I've run communities myself in the past, the more opportunity has come to me. You know, the more you step out of that guarded mindset, the more you're vulnerable, the more you ask for things. Um yeah, the more comes back to you really. And being being vulnerable as well, I think you make it okay for the next person to go, oh yeah, actually, yeah, like you're right, that is hard, and I struggle with that. And actually, I can see because you're struggling with that, that it's okay. So, yeah, I mean it's endlessly generative in terms of being honest and open and not limiting yourself.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I think as well that people people love to help as well, is the other thing. Something that I hadn't realized um uh early on in my career is that it's okay to ask questions, but people love being asked questions, they they want to step in and help because you feel like you're annoying people by asking. And actually, if you put that question out to a community, people are like, Oh, I'd love to to help. We we have a mentoring program for that reason because you get told go and find yourself a mentor, and you ask loads of people on LinkedIn, and you don't hear back from them, or you get rejected, and you think, oh, actually, maybe this isn't the best place to find someone. So we started a directory to put all of those people that wanted to be a mentor into the directory to connect them with the people that that were looking for one, and and it's so many people went into that directory because people want to help and give back, they just need a place to do it, and community is a great place to be able to do that and find your people, and and I completely agree about sharing your struggles, especially as a founder of the business. Places like Instagram and LinkedIn, when you see the stories and they're like, I wanted to start this business, and look at me one year later, and they haven't shared what happened in that year. You want to see how did you struggle inside that year? Because it's not just, you know, one year ago I had this tiny thoughts and everything's been fantastic since. Like, we want to see what was your struggle because that's the thing that actually people will connect with. And the more you share that, the more it helps other people and helps you in your journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah, definitely. It's that it's that validation and that kind of yeah, you've just made it you've made it safe for me to be like struggling a bit with that. But also it's like, well, that oh, yeah, you struggle with that. Maybe you know how to help me get through that as well. So yeah, it's just being honest and open is you know, just a such a better way to be. And I hear you, like I'm I'm an accredited coach and I've had a coaching business for a while, and just the level of polish and that's put out there in the coaching industry just is so frustrating. I think it's it's really changing now, like people are becoming a lot more real. But yeah, it's you know, it's not like how life is, and it's it's that authenticity is where you make connection with people and you open the door.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, exactly. That polished version. It helps, but it doesn't, you know, we want to know. We want to know what's and all, what happened, how can we, how can we help each other. Um, and and we've already touched upon this a little bit, but I I wanted to to hear how women can better articulate their potential um and actively build supportive networks around them, um, because that's also a struggle as well of finding a community and building that community to help you to tell your story. Um, you mentioned about running a community and finding your community. How did you do that? How can how can our listeners build more supportive networks?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, I mean, I I kind of uh I seem to be centered around communities, whether I've tried to or not in most of my career. My first business was a business community, that's business that I sold. Um I I yeah, it's like having it's wanting, I hate that phrase, your your vibe attracts your tribe, it's really cheesy, but it is a little bit like that. Um, it's finding your people that are kind of in the same space going through similar things as you, that A, as we kind of were just talking about, it kind of validates your experience, but also some people in there that will stretch as well that you know, she's done that, so I can see that it's possible for me. And you just talk the same language. Um, and certainly like one thing that I've really, really found valuable as a founder is starting to like join more founder communities, and it's like, oh yeah, these are my people. And it's really it's exciting when it happens. Um, but equally, I've had the experience of going to networking and group and joining groups where I haven't really felt like I've belonged. And it yeah, it can feel a little bit uncomfortable and you kind of question yourself. And it I think that is key is like finding the right ones for you that really kind of connect with your where you are and where you want to go. And that is like a game changer. It really, you know, it helps, it's that context that we need to kind of see what's out there, what's possible, where where you grow, like to have those opportunities that we were saying, like opening yourself up to what more might be out there.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yes, and um being able to articulate your capabilities as well. Um, and and like you said, finding those communities that can help you with that. Yeah. Um, because I love the fact that you said um not all communities feel comfortable either, which is very true. It's finding the right one to to help you with what you're building um and what you're doing, because you want to hear you you almost want to hear the mistakes as well. Like, what are the mistakes that people have made so you can try and avoid those mistakes as well when when building out you know your company or um your story, but then finding a way to articulate your capabilities and what you're good at um to shine out, you know, in a sea of other people that might be doing something very similar.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, I mean, that's a thing as well. Sometimes it's like seeing what you're not to help you know what you are. Um, and it's like, you know, uh thinking because I'm a brand person, like you call it positioning. So it's like, you know, where do you sit in the market? What do you do? What happened, how are you good at that? How do you do it differently? And you know, who do you work with? It's like thinking about it like that is a really quick and easy way to kind of figure out what it is you do as a kind of overall um header. And once you have that framing, it's much easier to kind of angle everything else. Um, and I think you know, when you're when you're in the right community, it just feels different. It is it's not about the community being right and wrong. I mean, some places are, you know, there are toxic communities and networking groups, but it's you know, there's not just that. There's sometimes it's just people in a different stage and a different place, and um it does just genuinely feel different. So, for example, I've been in solopreneur type communities before, and now that I'm doing the startup journey, I'm in founder communities, and whilst they're both businesses, people running businesses, they feel completely different, and founder feels much more like where I'm at. Um, so it yeah, it just makes such a difference having the right people around you, and you know, you think you might know a lot about your particular area, but then having people in your community that have on a similar traject trajectory but with different experience is just like makes all the difference because you get like we were talking at the beginning, it's opening yourself up to those possibilities and potentials that you couldn't see on your own before, and then validating the bits that feel messy or comfortable that you're like, oh, but I haven't quite got this right. You know, there'll be people that have been through that or worse or whatever that you know can help you feel better. So yeah, it makes a difference.

A Simple Plan To Regain Momentum

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yes, definitely. Some of our um engineers and developers uh have told us as well that especially working in tech, you can have very high days and very high highs and very low lows. And sometimes finding that community to help you with that, to say, like it's okay that you something might have gone wrong at work, or like let's talk about that, or you found yourself on the wrong team and you want to move, and how do I do that, or retrain into something new? Um hearing that other people also experiencing what you're experiencing uh definitely can make such such a difference um to uh how you show up at work as well and and want to move forward um and and go on and um apply to somewhere else as well. Um I wanted to ask you if someone listening feels invisible or stuck in their job search right now, what's the first practical step they can take to regain momentum? Um and what would you tell them to do this week?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, I mean, always I would advise going to some action because what tends to happen is we feel invisible, we can we can internalize everything and get stuck in how we're feeling. And actually, what our people often do is like, right, I'm gonna send out 100 easy apply applications, and surely within that 100, I'll get one of those jobs. But it doesn't work like that because as we were talking about at the beginning, those applications are pretty rubbish. And I'll, you know, maybe you'll be lucky, but probably not. Um so what I'd do is sort of cut the volume, think about what you what sort of jobs you really want to apply for and where, and think about some practical steps you can take today, maybe three different things just today. Um the first one I would suggest like make sure your LinkedIn profile is really up to date and it really positions you for the job you want. It makes it clear that you can you've got the skills and experience, you know, even in your header to do that job. And think about the job that you want, not just the job you're doing or you've done before. Um and then reach out to some people in your network or in your like first, I think it's second degree contacts, I can't quite remember, the your your contact contact. Um maybe some people that are working in the companies that you're interested in, or might have the sort of job roles that you're interested in, and just like be friendly and helpful and see if they've got any tips about, you know, maybe they know if there's any jobs available, or um, you know, they might be able to give you some advice about the kind of people they look for, just kind of like gently probing questions as opposed to like pushy, have you got a job? But just gentle, friendly networking questions and see what you can draw out. Because often, like, you know, the people in organizations are really, really busy as well, and they're dealing with all these applications. So, actually, if there's people within their networks that are good and come through recommended circles, they would much rather choose those people. So, trying to do some quiet networking and see what you can kind of shake out is a really, really good place to start. Um, and then just probably, yeah, some a few like targeted job applications. Look at, as I said before, look at the job description, really make sure your CV matches what's on there. Um, have those tangible examples of how you've demonstrated those skills, those specific requirements it's looking for. Think about your experience on a deeper level, like just because you may not have done that specific job role or skill before in your last job, or the one before that, you know, there might be something else in your hobbies or your project you ran or something else you've done that you can bring in to try and bulk up your um experience to kind of make you match that job role better. So there's always a, you know, there's always a few things you can do quite quickly. And I think taking it back to action and doing something really tangible will make you feel better really, really quickly and probably get some results at least.

Brag Books, Confidence, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yes, I think that that is the making you feel better really quickly. It can be quite disheartening when you go um start searching for a job, and uh they say it's searching for a job is a full-time job anyway, and um it can really drag you down. Um, a phrase I heard on this podcast a little while ago, and something that I um I think I I will take with me everywhere I go is um a brag book. And um somebody said to me, every time you do something like a project or something that you're proud of, put it in your brag book because that helps you when you do go on to tell your story for your next role, because you do forget a lot of the things that you have done and been a part of. So it is hard at that point to think, actually, what did I do? Was I managing a team? How did we cope with that project when it went wrong? Um, did we all throw each other under the bus or did we move forward as a team? Like how did we cope with that challenge? Um, but the brag book of remembering to write down your achievements, and then that helps you put together your story for when you are applying um next time. And that's something that I think a lot of us just forget to do. We just forget to know our achievements. Um, and it's really difficult then when you're applying and you just turn to AI and it spits you out of C V.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I love that. I love that. I think as well, it's it's very British to not brag. It's like we want to be humble. But you do you need to, I mean, there's you know, there's making claims and then there's being able to really sell yourself in a very practical, tangible, and clear way. Um, you know, so I think yeah, starting to rate those lists is really, really useful. And you know, we all say, Oh, keep your CV updated every, you know, every few months, go on there, and it is good to do, but we don't always do it. Um, so yeah, I think I love that having a brag book and also like you know, giving yourself a pat on the back for those things, because we don't do that enough either.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Exactly. Okay, and you you're right, that is very British um us not even doing that, even if you keep that brag book in in secret until you're ready to apply for something. Um, it's very British not to shout about our achievements um as well, which is uh um not a helpful exercise when you need to then go on and um talk about all the great things you did when you're applying for a role. Um not not very helpful. Um I could go on talking to you about this all afternoon. Um it is something that our community are so interested in. How do I stand out? Um, how how do I make myself seen? I love the fact that um you also just mentioned about keeping up um that energy as well and um and and lifting you, it's remaining positive whilst you're searching for a job as well, because it can be very tough. Um and finding people like yourselves and and your platform on how to um be able to connect with employers and and to stand out more um is really, really important. But um, Katie, thank you so much for sharing uh what you're doing. Um it's absolutely wonderful. Um, it aligns so much with our community. Um so thank you so much for for joining me. It's been an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Thanks for having me. It's been great.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Thank you. And for everybody listening, as always, thank you for joining us, and we hope to see you again next time.