Revolutionising the workplace for hormonal health

In this episode, we’re joined by Ale Wiecek, Founder and Chief Empathy Officer, who is revolutionising the workplace through the lens of hormone health, longevity, and leadership wellbeing. 

A Human-Centred Design leader and speaker, Ale works at the intersection of empathy and performance—supporting women navigating burnout, hormonal imbalance, and sustainability in high-pressure, male-dominated industries like tech and design. Through her work at BIFTSBO, Ale empowers female leaders and innovators to protect their energy, sustain creativity, and lead with purpose without sacrificing their health. 

This conversation challenges traditional models of leadership and explores what it truly means to design workplaces—and lives—that support long-term wellbeing and impact. 

SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.

Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Hormones Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Batesman, the Managing Director at SheCan Code, and today we're discussing revolutionising the workplace for hormone health. I've got the wonderful Ali Wajek Roho, founder and chief empathy officer at FISPO with me, who is revolutionizing the workplace through the lens of hormone health, longevity, and leadership well-being. We're lucky enough to have her here today to challenge traditional models of leadership and explore what it truly means to design workplaces and lives that support long-term well-being and impact. Welcome Ali. Thank you so much for being on here today. We haven't had this topic before, so I am super excited to chat with you. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really, I was looking forward to this conversation since the moment we plan it. And um, yeah, I can wait to support the Sheikan Code community in any way I can.

Ali’s Perimenopause Story And BizFo

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Amazing. Thank you. I know they're gonna love this topic. Um, and um it's it's something that, as I said, we haven't had on the podcast before. Um, but I know our community do discuss it um within our platform. So uh can we get started with uh a little bit about yourself and a bit of background, please, to set the scene for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes, for sure. I am a founder who is in the meats of perimenopause. And for those who might have heard that that word, the P word, uh, might know what it looks like. It's something that can start after the age of 35 and essentially changes your brain chemistry and most of the different aspects, behavioral aspects of your life. Uh, being a founder previously, with my um human central design consultancy that I had in Australia, I decided to really use my very problem, which was um these hormonal transition of permanent pause into a business which is now Biz Fox. It is an education platform for workplaces, women and families to really support them with the guilt, the shame, and the transition that hormonal well-being can look like, and also demystify what it looks like, what it could be, and support women, families, and workplaces to really have the right tools to navigate career progression, mental health, which is a big, big topic of hormonal transition, as well as you know, what could we do at a broader scale? Um I wrote a book uh at the very beginning of my journey with Beast for Cold, and I will apologize because it has a swear word in it. Um it is um it is called Breathe In, Fuck This Shit and Breathe Out, which is ultimately, yeah, I know, I know. I love it. Um yes, it's um it is ultimately the manifesto that kept me going in a very, very dark time um when I moved from Australia to Spain and having this um this opportunity to create something that I knew was going to help me, but also I knew was gonna help others really took me forward into what now Bisfo is.

Chief Empathy Officer Explained

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I love that. I love that. Um, and something that really stood out was your um job title, Chief Empathy Officer. Um what does that mean uh to you in the context of leadership and high performance workplaces, but also how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah, look, when I when I started my first company, um Square One, I remember I wanted to really go back to basics, hence the name Square One. How can we go back to the very beginning of it all? And when I obviously as a CEO, I was like, how can I bring the empathy component from, as we know, design being quite a quite a critical uh first phase of anything to do with customers is empathy. So CEO, which also stands for Chief Empathy Officer, for me was really that combination between data and courage. For me, empathy is that it's data in noticing what actually is happening to us, to humans, to the people around us, to the energy that we may have, to the focus that might be changing, to the workload, to the capacity. And for me, courage, which is the other side of empathy, is really acting out on that data, which sounds easy, but sometimes we know it's not, because that could mean changing priorities, that could be saying no, that could be changing our careers altogether, that could be really around redesigning how work gets done and how our lives might look with ourselves, with our loved ones. And we know that when it comes to empathy in high performance workplaces, for example, we think it's really about being nice. And of course, it is a component of it. But it's really more around psychological safety. It's really around making decisions based on your own patterns, on your own feelings, having realistic workloads and leaders who are able and open to stay regulated from a nervous system perspective under pressure, because we know this regulated leadership, for example, can create a lot of chaotic teams. So, in my experience, when I have been able personally as a leader, as a founder, and as a consultant in the past to really truly regulate my nervous system and bring that empathy component of data and courage, I've been able to really thrive in moments where I thought I was gonna fail. Um, I often talk about the productivity loop that we should be looking for, which is a really quick framework. I'm very, very happy to touch um touch on that as we as we discuss um more oftenly during this episode.

Entrepreneurship With Nervous System Limits

SPEAKER_00 5:33

I love that. Uh you're talking about teams of chaos. We've all been on them. Um I actually um got me thinking, uh on a personal level, how did you get to launching your own business? So something that we talk about on here regularly, that's not for the faint-hearted. Um, and that takes a certain type of person that thinks, I'm gonna launch my own business and I'm gonna go on to launch a second business. That's not like you done it and fall order, that's not for me. How did how did that happen?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Look, I'm gonna give a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is that I truly believe it is part of my purpose in this planet and in this life. I truly believe not everyone it is cut to be an entrepreneur. It requires grit, persistence, constant failure, constant rejection, and a lot of pressure to yourself and us and your family. And let me tell you, combining entrepreneurship with permanent pause, not a good combo. The the Lauren story, I think for me was I wanted to create something off the back of having escalated the traditional corporate ladder in the marketing and customer experience and omni-channel world that I was prior to having a business. I really felt that I had this very interesting characteristic about me, which was creating projects that were brand new, they were very visionary projects, very entrepreneurial. And I thought, could I create a business off the back of it? I remember I had my second child at the time, and I had a newborn on one hand, and on the other hand, I had this business model that I was trying to develop as I was completely clueless if it was going to work and what the hell I was doing. So it took a lot of trial and error. And I think the only reason I persisted is because number one, I had financial support from my husband. I really think if you do not feel that you have a financial baseline to pursue something that just regulates your nervous system. And rather than making it exciting, it might actually make it quite quite stressful. Everyone is different. That was my experience. But on the other hand, I also had this space to really create something that I knew was going to create an impact in businesses, which at the time was, you know, customer experience, design, and innovation. And then my other business, you know, now Bispo is truly because I saw a problem. There was a clear pattern in the industry that indicated this is a not saturated space, but it's really fastly growing. And why not come with my flavor, with a different flavor on hormones and health? So I think it's really truly about your purpose. Can I do it? Do I have the support and the things that I need to continuously become an entrepreneur while I don't know what I'm doing? And at the same time, regulate my own nervous system.

Why Hormone Health Gets Ignored

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yes, definitely. Yes, because it's it's not for everybody. And we uh talk a lot on here as well about the teams that navigate towards startups and wanting to be in that environment. Like you said, it your nervous system feels very different when you're working in the wrong environment because I personally, mine never really worked in corporate and I didn't like that. And and suddenly you feel it's like your whole soul just is is at rest where you find the right place. And for me, that's smaller companies and startups, and we have lots of weird and wonderful challenges, and it's just really good fun, but also very challenging at the same time. But that really is different for each person. Um, and some something we do discuss on here is founders of companies, and um wanting to do that, it does take a certain type of person to to want to do it to do it, and um to launch a second as well. Um hormone health, so it is rarely discussed at work. Um why do you believe it's such uh uh it's such a critical and overlooked factor in leadership well-being, particularly in women?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

That's a really good question. I I there is a pattern right now that we see in the industry uh with companies, especially those companies that are more progressive, um, offering hormonal knowledge and hormonal education to the workforce. However, I really truly believe that hormone hormonal knowledge can truly, truly challenge the exact things that workplaces demand, which is productivity, focus, and performance, right? So when we when we look at, for example, women who are listening to this um to this episode, we know that workplaces, currently, most of them, not all of them, as we know, but most workplaces are designed as if everyone has the same predictable patterns and their body works the same every day. And when we know that for women, because of our hormones really, really dictate a lot of our mood, our performance, our productivity, our cognitive abilities, we know that if we don't look at that, then that's that's when the issue really starts around hormonal health. Um, it is not a personal and unprofessional topic. I know that for a lot of women and a lot of companies find it really uncomfortable to talk about hormones or periods because they think it doesn't belong in the workplace. But we know from the data and employee retention, productivity and performance, it is highly linked to the impact that is really being brought by employees to the company in terms of bottom line performance and even outcomes. But it's also, on the other hand, really creating either a very engaged employee, a very productive employee, or a burnout employee, which ultimately is going to have an impact on the outcomes of the company. So I really, truly believe it's not a niche topic anymore. I think it's really around how it can be done and utilized to bring a much better mental health for our employees, ultimately, employee engagement and retention. Also, with the progressive issue that will continue as we know there will be more people entering the workforce that will demand that support, nevertheless. So I really think that it is really important. For example, we know in Spain alone where I'm based, and there is a lot of this data globally. There is a productivity impact, if we look at that, it's a 1.8 billion annually impact on productivity losses for companies because there is no workplace support when it comes to hormones, and I think that is really massive. And around 86 million on workday losses. And there's data around this all globally. The UK has an incredible number of studies done on this matter. So I really think it's no longer something that is a nice to have. I really think it's something that should be taking place. Um, if your company is not doing anything, they really need to start thinking about it.

When Symptoms Are Slow And Invisible

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yes, I can agree more. And uh the thing is with hormone health as well, is um you don't always notice what is happening to you because it happens so slowly. So you don't expect your workplace to notice because you haven't really noticed yourself, is the thing. I I found that um when I I was uh coming up to that age in my 30s, and um I I felt like I was everything I did at that company that I was at at that time, I couldn't I I was doing it wrong. I just there was something about it that I just could not put my finger on it until somebody because it really knocks your confidence as well, because you're like, uh what happened to me? Like I'm meant to be experienced by this point. Why why am I uh failing in so many ways in in in my mind as well? Like you were overthinking it. And it's because it had happened so slowly that when you eventually get a blood test and they go, Did you know that your B12 is on the floor and you need some injections pretty fast? And like, no, no one had told me that because nobody had told me that it's been turned down, everything had been turned down, like all the colours around me had been turned down so slowly that when I had these injections, I was like, Whoa, I can see colours, I can smell again, and I had no idea because it happened so gradually, and it that's what happens with hormones that you don't even notice. And then when I had them and I felt better again, I was like, Oh gosh, like thank god it wasn't me, and the you know, my confidence at that point had been knocked. And and for a workplace as well, to be in the right workplace to understand that that it wasn't it wasn't even something that I'd noticed, and it was so gradual um until you know you get sorted and you think actually it affected everything else, my iron levels and everything, everything had just gone west that I hadn't even noticed, um, because of uh, you know, obviously you you at a certain point in life some things happen. Um, but sometimes I think when you explain that to people, I I remember being in a workplace where a friend told me that and she said, Oh, you know, this is happening and and I'm having injections for this and that. And I remember the team being a bit kind of like, you know, she's not she she's underperforming because she needs this and that. And then I remember thinking, I was having those injections and thinking, oh my gosh, like is that what everybody was thinking of me? But like you said, it's actually not so taboo anymore talking about that. I even talk about things like menopause and um you know, being a a lot more than needing just a desk fan, and it's a lot more than that. Um, so it's not it is spoke about nowadays, but I think it's because it's it's so gradual, you just don't notice that's that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I agree, and and and that is so true. You know, right now we see a huge, a huge trend around women going online and finding out information. Sometimes Dr. Google or Dr. Chat GPT might not be providing the right information, but that is because there's also be an you know incredible ghosting from doctors who are not qualified with hormonal health education to um help women with either hormonal replacement therapy or B12 or you're feeling quite you're feeling depressed, it might be then your vitamin D is low. There is so much nuance in this area. And I also think women, as you said, don't know what's happening. You might go to a doctor and you might say, you might be told your blood are fine, but they're not fine. And ultimately, we don't have the language to know what's happening and then how to bring it to the workforce. So we feel that we're failing. We feel so much shame. It's like, what's happening with me? And it's a constant vicious cycle of guilt, in my opinion. So I love that you talk about that. I think it's so important that we first understand ourselves. We shouldn't be expecting the workplace to be the one that provides the information. Absolutely not. They are not a touch point in people's lives, but it really should start with ourselves first.

Women In Tech And The Hidden Load

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yes, and being a company that was uh for me luckily very flexible at the time because I had to go and all have all these load-in shots and being, I would say, you know, they're all weird times of the day, and to to make sure that that that happened. So by the time you do figure things out, having you know, a a a manager that can say, fine, just go and get what you need, you know, just disappear, go and get get what you need, and um and then come out the other side and and think thankfully I was a company that didn't mind that I needed to do that, um, makes such a difference to to your work-life balance, definitely. Yeah. Um, tech, so tech and design, they remain heavily male-dominated industries, um, as we know. What unique pressures do women face in these environments? And how do those pressures show up hormonally and emotionally?

SPEAKER_01 17:40

I think that's really interesting. We were talking about it um before we we record it, right? Like we talk about burnout being a big, a big thing. And I truly in tech, outside of tech, but let's say in tech and this and design, I truly believe that women often carry an invisible extra load that sometimes we might not be able to label it as such. That might be proving your credibility repeatedly, like your worth, um, because you have male colleagues around you that might be doing the same amount of work, sometimes even less, but they are perceived differently than you. So it's that constant proving. It's also that trend or that trait of perfectionism that, as we know, it deplenishes your nervous system quite rapidly because you're using it as a protection, but it's on the inside, you're burning out. It could also be around pleasing people, saying, saying, saying yes to things that you shouldn't and ultimately deprioritizing yourself. And it could also be masking, you know, to be likable, to be seen as something that you're not. You know, I've I remember in Australia I used to be in different female in leadership or women in leadership conferences, and one of the things that they talked about is how women even stop being so authentically themselves, maybe even dressing differently just because they were entering a male-dominated environment. And we know that over time the plenches your nervous system. So this chronic pressure, in my opinion, will show physiologically, it will show with sleep disruption, it will show as anxiety, it will show as irritability, and that irritability might not be shown at work. That irritability might be shown at home because you're masking everything. And when you get home, you take over all the fake layers and then be yourself. And that's when people at home might go, What's happening? Like, what's wrong with you? Um, it could be brain fogs or your cognitive ability to think straight that might change. It could be cycle disruption. We see from the data a lot of women not having regulate cycles or no cycles at all. They are not able to really manage their bodies and their bodies are constantly sticking by maybe not having a period or having dysregulated periods. And so it can also intensify PMS, PMDD, all of the things. And it ultimately will sneak, you know, will consciously be like a sneaky way to not get them to progress in a relaxed way through their career. So I really think even though tech and design are male-dominated, I really believe women can and should feel empowered to have that confidence and to be themselves, to be authentically themselves. Because when their capacity drops, because they need to be know themselves, their confidence drops, their self-doubt increases, and that's no good news, right? Like we know that is no good. That we'll do in things and maybe speak less in meeting, in meetings, be less involved in different projects, maybe trying to overcompensate at times. And I talk about cycles a lot, right? And like the menstrual cycles and the different phases of our cycles that might be overcompensating in moments where you should actually be taking things off your plate. And so I really think it's really important for women to start signaling what is happening to them, being in a male-dominated environment, like what is happening to me, how can I choose a strategy that might help me to match the capacity of my body in that very moment. It could be thinking about what support I can have from myself and from others in this very moment to really navigate the constant or the reality of my work environment, which is there's a lot of males. I need to prove myself in one way or another. And it could also be around building a system for protecting your energy. It might be removing meetings that are not necessary, it might be taking things away, putting things in your calendar more around your mental health and your well being. Because it's really important for women to remember, even though in the moment might feel that you might be seen amongst your male colleagues, over time, it will be abandoning yourself. And over time, it will mean burnout, stress, and longevity issues, mental health, all of the nice things that we don't want to have in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yes, I couldn't agree more. And uh are those each part has a knock-on effect to the point where yes, you've gone to gone over to full-blown burnout and all all of those tiny little bits, they do mount up and they do affect you in in so many different ways. Um I have noticed that um so I do blood donation, which I've done for a long time, but sometimes I get there, they do the little finger prick test, and they go, No, you're uh slightly below the um iron the benchmark that we need for you to give blood. And whenever that has happened, it's because something is happening in my life where I am stressed, I'm stressed at work, I'm moving house, and that's taking a long time, you've lost the loved one. Anything that is happening, I've found I will go to get in that chair and they will go, nope, not today. And I always say to them, my blood isn't very happy, is it? It because it shows in other areas where you don't realize that what is happening in your life at that time is just burning you out. And it's luckily with blood donation, you get to check every three months wherever how you're faring, but you I hadn't noticed that moving house, for instance, and trying to manage work and everything else was really affecting me internally, and I I hadn't even noticed because you're all kind of just functioning, you know, you're still functioning, you're still going along, and that's how you get to that burnout point where you're like, I just haven't noticed that all of these little things are adding up, and I haven't stopped to check in on myself at all, um, or colleagues haven't, or because no one else has noticed it, because like you said, you're masking it the whole time. You don't even you don't even realize, and like you said, sometimes in a especially in a mal dominated environment, you don't even want to let on that you might get to a point where you know you're masking it, but you don't want to say, you know, it's just like I'm just gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I think it's fine. Exactly. And and you know, I always think about it as uh, you know, almost like a battery that you know, phones have batteries, things have batteries, and you're just running on low, but you are pretending in front of other people that you're running on high, and and ultimately, you know, our body will keep talking to you, will keep giving you data, we'll keep giving you information. As I said, data encouraged, that's empathy. You will look at that within yourself and go, do I want to take an action on that? Knowing my blood is my, you know, my iron is low, I'm not at my optimal, but then I've got a week pack with meetings and things that are not even 10% of that is about looking after myself. I'm gonna change that. So I think it's really making those decisions and really nurturing yourself the best way you can, despite the realities of being in a male or not male-dominated. I think at the end of the day, you are your own, you are your bosses. Like I say to my 10-year-old, is your body, is your rules. You make the rules.

Burnout Signals Leaders Miss

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yes, because even if you are signposted to say there there isn't something quite right, um, whether or not you do choose to think, oh, it's got like a week's worth of meetings coming up. How do I say no to something or learn to delegate or you know, just something to improve um how you're feeling in that moment? Um we have touched upon burnout because it is often worn as a badge of honor. Um, how does burnout differ for women and what signs do you see female leaders ignoring until it's too late?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah. I see burnout almost like, you know, like a flame that over time it starts getting smaller and smaller as you put less wood into it, for example. And so the burnout, burnout could look very different for different people. I have a friend who I was talking to yesterday, and she was saying burnout for me was like overnight. Like one day I was fine, the next day I wasn't. And and we know that that can just happen when we we, as we were discussing just now, over time there are signals that you are ignoring. So burnout could be for women, that extra layer, right? Like it could be I've got too much in my career, I've got maybe that hormonal load that I'm not really paying attention to. It could also be, you know, carrying that mental load at home. If we have things happening at home, if we have little ones or we want to have little ones, we might have a pet, we might have parents, whatever it is. And it could be things happening socially. We know that social media doesn't do any good for our nervous system and it actually constantly creates a really not very nice feeling within ourselves to feel regulated. If we start ignoring things that might happen, you know, I think it's really good for I'm gonna give a list and I think it will be really good for people to write their own list as they're listening to me and and for them to probably go, yes, this has happened to me, or create a different list. It might be different to you, but it could be I'm waking up at 3 a.m. That's I've I personally have had a teacher in the past where my cortisol levels, which is my stress hormone, goes up and at 3 a.m. I'm wide awake thinking of the two-do lists that I have to do that that morning. It could be brain fog, which can be described as not thinking straight. I am constantly forgetting words, what is that thing? Where did I leave my keys? Happens to me too. Um it could mean it could be emotion, emotional volatility, it could be that numbness as well, that something really big happens in your life and you don't feel anything. That means your nervous system is not in a very good place with because of burnout. Um, it could be losing joy or creativity in a role or career that you used to love and all of a sudden it's just too much. Um, it could be, you know, things about overeating or needing more coffee or more tea or sugar to function, right? Like we know glucose plays a huge role. And if it's not taken care of, that could actually deplenish your nervous system and your digestive system as well. And also kind of not being truthful to yourself and to others, saying, I'm fine, but you're really not. You're not really being honest with what's going on. So I really think burnout in women is definitely not a batch of honor. I know that we can do a very good job at saying, oh, yes, I'm I'm burnout, but I'm pushing through, you know, I'm I'm burnt out, but I'm I'm doing more hours. Or that's definitely not, that's definitely something I would like for the conversation to change. I think when we think about career progression, especially for those listening, burnout will make you in that moment either freeze or flee. It means I can't, I can't ask for anything. People will see the true colors of what's going on, or they might want to flee, which is like, I need to run, I need to run from reality. And ultimately, what that leads is to not having the right discussions at work. It could be resigning your career altogether or actually just collapsing. So I really think if we do more of uh what I call the minimal viable leadership, which is like a low capacity, it's like if you're at low capacity and you're picking up on those signals, what can you do to protect your essentials? That might be your sleep, your nourishment, like food, it could be movement, um, it could be your even relationships. What are you doing to reduce that fatigue, um, especially decision fatigue? And what can you do to stop negotiating with your nervous system? I think as we as we just have already mentioned many times, your body will keep talking to you until you say, okay, let me do something about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yes, I I I love everything you just said. I have that renegotiating with your nervous system. I spoke with a lady on here and um we spoke about burnout, and she's now a coach for um people so they don't burn out. And um, one of the things that stuck with me, she used the phrase golden handcuff, and she said, I got into a job where I became that lifestyle, I funded that lifestyle. My husband and I bought a bigger house, we bought new cars, and we funded that, and she said, and I liked that. So even though she was uh she she knew there was there were signposts that coming up all the time, she didn't listen to her nervous system because she was in these golden handcuffs where she was thinking here, but I'm gonna have to keep funding this lifestyle, I need to keep doing this because this is now we have to pay this mortgage, now we have to pay for these cards and um the lifestyle that we have for us and our children. So she almost couldn't remove herself from that until she burnt out, and now she coaches people on saying, if you get those alarm bells going off and you're realizing that it is affecting your nervous system, your hormones, your body, please take note because it you know, at one point it will just like like the ladies said to you, it just happened overnight. Um so yeah, it's it's listening sometimes, but I think um not backing yourself into a corner sometimes that you have to just keep going um to to fund that is also important as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Yeah, and and it requires a lot of courage. You know, I really you know, I reflect on on my career when you know I was miserable at a role and I I wasn't happy, I wasn't fulfilled. Um, but I had bills to pay, and and that really meant for me that I had to keep sucking it up for a little while longer. And that wasn't good for my mental health. I wasn't in a very good place. And I think if anyone who's listening to this feels trapped, I I just want to say this isn't permanent, this is just momentarily, and it will go away. I think it's really important to have a plan where you can first look after your mental health and off the back of that, really start taking those actions towards towards a space that is honestly out of your comfort zone, unless you say it. It's not gonna be fun, it's not gonna be easy, but you will be able to extend your comfort zone. I always call it, you know, the growing pains, and as we all grow in from little people to adults, it is called growing pains for a reason. It is the same thing with your comfort zone. It would essentially be very small and it will grow and it will grow, and your brain will create neural pathways for you to manage that new comfort zone. And so it is doable, it is possible, and you need to keep trusting the process and just know it is temporary and it will go away.

Sustainable Success And Cycle Rhythms

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yes. I think companies are more open to that as well now because um we get a lot of questions on our live events where our community will ask, um, if you were at a company and you weren't happy, how long do I stick that out? Because people worry that they're gonna have a gap on their CV or they're, you know, I was only at a company a couple of months, and their next company's gonna say, Well, that's a bit of a red flag, you didn't stick that out. And I think it's more acceptable nowadays to just be honest and say, I got in somewhere and it wasn't for me, because we've all done it. You land on the wrong team, the wrong company. There's something about it that just doesn't sit well with you. It doesn't mean that the company was wrong or the team was wrong. We just all have our own seats at the table, and perhaps I was sitting at the wrong table, and that's really that's just it. But I think companies are a bit more open to saying just being honest and saying, you know what, it wasn't for me and um my mental health, um, it didn't sit well with me, and or my work-life balance, and I decided to make a choice for me and I left, and and that's it. Instead of thinking I'm gonna have to stick this out for a minimum of a year, it's gonna absolutely ruin my confidence and my nervous system by the time I leave here, but at least I've got a year on my CV, and actually that's not good for anybody. No, definitely not. Um, so also at um Bispo, um, you focus on longevity as much as performance. What does sustainable success actually look like when we factor in hormonal balance and long-term health?

SPEAKER_01 34:11

I I do like to think of sustainability in our lives in a context of not needing not having your life to require recovery. And what that means, it could be that you know, your energy is quite stable, you're actually feeling quite optimal on a regular basis. And and you can look at your patterns. You can even um look at, you know, for the next three months, I'm gonna track my energy levels and you see that things are tracking in a very good place. It could be that you also complete a stress cycles and you return to calm. That is sustainable, sustainability when it comes to longevity and hormonal health, is closing stress cycles, which we all have them at work. Like right now, I'm in the midst of a big project and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can see my neck is getting tightened. I am, I'm still not closing my cycle, but what can I do to do things better? It could also be around working rhythms that really match capacity across cycle phases. Um, for anyone who is younger than 35, you would have a much more predictable cycle. That means you would have your menstrual cycle, your follicular, your ovulatory cycle, and then your literal cycle, right? So we have these four phases. And in these four phases, you'll be able to do different things. And so if you're if you're able to match your work rhythms with that, which by the way, disclaimer is it won't be done perfectly. It is impossible to say you can just match your great conversations when you are in your relation phase. No, you might actually be on a very big project that requires you to do other things. So it is really around doing the best you can with where you are in that moment. And that's what I talked earlier about where am I at today, what kind of, what kind of change in my workload. It could also really around, it could also be really around boundaries that protect your sleep, boundaries that protect your health. And I think right now it's quite triggering, I find it quite triggering when the new year starts. People want new year, new year resolutions and new habits and new things. And everyone is talking everywhere on social media, especially about do this thing, wake up at five in the morning. I've done that. I've woken up at 4 a.m., I've gone to the gym, I've meditated, I've done my journal, I've eaten my smoothie, and I can just tell you it helped me for so long. But right now, it doesn't help with my perimenopausal lifestyle. It will, it will burn me out in a matter of days. So it is doing the things that are good for me. It can be different for your friend, for your for your colleague at work. And I really think it's also around, and this is very important, it could be around having a career path that doesn't punish you for having shifts in your mood, shifts in your focus, shifts in your productivity. As you said as well, like you had a boss, for example, that was very supportive of you when you were going through different transitions. We may have someone like that in our careers, or we might not. If we feel like we do, be honest, be as open as you feel you can be. You don't need to be the super vulnerable, super sharing kind of person if you think your boss is not going to be open to that conversation. But you can still demand things. You can still say, hey, let's reschedule that meeting at 3 p.m. Um because something came up. And that something came up might be I'm not feeling my best and I'm actually not able to think straight. So let's just do that another time. So it's really around feeling that safety within yourself. Um, for me, that's sustainability. Feeling that safety that you can say, let's change the timing of my of what I have right in front of me. Let's bring forward things that I should be doing today, because today is when I could have great conversations with my male developers, great conversations around my career, great conversations about a pay rise, whatever it is, bring it to say your voluntary face, do it then. And it's really around that, taking tiny actions. And that for me is that consistency. Consistency for me is not being the same, doing the same every day. It's actually having the power and that inner empowerment to do the things that you feel you can do in that day while maybe being very open to other people about it or not. So, in summary, for me, it's really about feeling safe. It's really about feeling that you don't need to constantly be in that burnout mode, almost like that flame is kind of becoming smaller and smaller. And it's really around that, it's really around creating consistency without the hustle mentality.

Redesigning Work Around Female Biology

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yes, and understanding that. I I love that because understanding when you know you're gonna be at your best and feeling good, and then other days you know you're not. If you are somebody that tracks your cycle in that way as well, like you know that I know day before I could clean the house, cut both lawns, and if you asked me I could lift a car, I'd be that strong. But after that, I don't want to know. I'm super tired, I'm probably not gonna be good for a few days. So you kind of know what's gonna happen. So you can track like where to put those meetings and whether or not to shift something. And you're so right, being in an environment where you feel safe enough to say, I think that is that is the key word there, safety, being in a when people say workplace culture, it's not actually the the the culture, it's how safe you feel about speaking up and saying something at work and whether or not you feel like you can do that, um, or not every time you need to feel like you need to um express a need that it's gonna be pushback, um, or somebody's gonna, you know, think that you're complaining. Um, and some companies, so at Sheikan Code, we uh we get a lot of obviously our corporate ambassadors who work with us, and we have noticed that the companies, because we I get to talk to all of their employees as well about you know, in enjoying things they enjoy about the workplace and how that culture is built. And something I've noticed is it's not something that's built overnight, that is something that starts from day one. Those employees that we get to talk to are our corporate ambassadors, they talk about it as um somebody said to me once, it's more than a Slack group, you know, we started a Slack channel and it's for women's well-being or it's for our women in tech. And it's like, great, but how do you feel when you go to work every day? Like that's a completely different feeling as to do you feel calm, do you feel like you can't ask for anything when you do have a problem? Like it's such a there's such a difference. So when companies talk about culture, some companies have done very well to include that in their DNA. And then you get the companies where people jump ship often, and there is a reason for that.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah, I so agree. And and I think I think it will take some time for companies to really see the value on developing those programs beyond that Slack channel for women. Like women still don't feel comfortable talking about hormones in the workplace. Let's just be really honest. I I play in this space and I know women do not feel comfortable even talking to their work colleagues about it, to their friends at work, even to their own friends in their home in their home lives, you know. So I think it definitely takes it, it's gonna take a little bit of time for everyone to feel a little bit more comfortable, but it's great for those companies who are really making the shift and and really trying the best they can.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yes, definitely. And on that note, if workplaces were truly designed around female biology and well-being, what would change first? And what advice would you give women trying to advocate for themselves right now? Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Um what we see working with the protocols around female accommodations when it comes to biology and well-being in the workplace, and this is for everyone, by the way, who is either an employee and they have a nine to five, or they are an entrepreneur or a freelancer themselves. Um, the shift from being a time-based productivity company to a capacity-based work design. That would mean having flexibility for maybe fewer meetings, uh, more deep work, and flexibility on intensity of the work as well. And really having managers, and this is really important what we see from the data. When we see middle managers being trained on somatic psychology, for example, or nervous system regulation basics, the hormonal literacy increases dramatically, and the conversations start taking place with that psychological safety that we constantly talk about in the workplace. Meadow managers are really key in this, and we don't talk about it enough. I really think if right now, if most if most women who are navigating their hormonal transitions, whether they're 35 and younger or 35 plus, with that zero structural support, we will know that companies will really struggle. Their employees will struggle, companies will struggle. When I look at the data of the work that we've done and the work being done globally, when workplaces are designed around these female biology and well-being, we know that they outperform, they have engaged employees, productivity increases, we're able to really see an impact on the outcomes and actually reducing the cost that companies have to pay for sometimes replacing an exec leader who might be going through permanopause. We're talking thousands and thousands of dollars of euros when that takes place. So I really think it's for women to start advocating now. If they don't feel like oversharing, that's okay. It could be things like hey, I do my Best work in this type of a structure, or it could be asking for work design changes, it could be protecting deep work if you are in your follicular phase and you know your and by the way, that might not be something that you know, but let's say that's a high energy phase because we know follicular and evolatory are high energy phases. That's when you might be wanting to do deep work, or that's my when you might be wanting deep conversations with different people. Make sure that you have that pivot mentality and that flexibility in changing your calendar because you are in a very specific energy cycle that day or that week. I really think it's really around tracking patterns as an individual. That's not your employer's responsibility, really tracking your sleep, your energy, your workload. So you have data to actually know what's going on. We know that there are many, many apps out there to really help women track their cycles. If you don't have a predictor of cycles, there are tons of things that we, for example, offer for people to track their cycles just from an emotional and energy base and really have a conversation around how the things that are taking place in the workplace might be helping you or not. So I think, in short, just to really close this question, I think if if workplaces were able to understand this is no longer a taboo topic, is really for women to feel this is something that you can honestly talk to your manager. Um, if it's really around pay rises or progression, my take is that you don't need to disclose your health details and your health data to ask for better conditions. You don't. You can still imply that you need better better um better conditions when it comes to health details in the workplace and without having to actually disclose your very specific data when it comes to what might be going on with you know with with your blots and everything. So I think that is really important to mention.

Where To Find BizFo And Programs

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Yes, and I love that you mentioned training um for managers and whether they are male or female, we get a lot of um, we have loads of male allies um that support our community. But I've also had a lot of those men say, you know what, usually it's nice to be part of a community where you can feel uh, you know, like there's a role, we have a mentoring program you can be part of, for instance, because usually when men have to have training for something in the workplace around that, it's being pulled into a room to be told all the things that you shouldn't say in the workplace, is what I've been told several times. So making sure that your male manager just uh has that training and at least is aware of things when they do come up would make uh such a difference. Um I couldn't agree more. Yeah. For our community, where can I get involved? Find you, find out your work, um, you know, like how can we signpost our community towards you?

SPEAKER_01 46:54

So we everyone everyone can find us on Beastfo.com. That's a mouthful. Um, but it's it stands for Breathe In for This Should Breathe Out as the book, but it's Beastfo.com. Um, we can you can also find us on all of our socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, you name it, all of them. Um, and also we are currently doing a program for leaders, um, executives, and entrepreneurs on how to work with their cycles, regulate the nervous system, and whether you are an employee yourself who wants to be trained or actually have a team that you just want to become knowledgeable. We are gonna be launching a program mid-February on that as well. So happy to share more details on that if if needed.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Amazing. I love that. Thank you so much, Ellie. It's been an absolute pleasure. I knew this conversation was gonna be a fun one. Um, so thank you so much for taking the time out to have a chat on spilling the tea today. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Oh, such a pleasure. I love talking about this topic. We could have talked about this for even more hours, but thank you so much for really having me. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Thank you. And for everybody listening, as always, thank you so much for joining us. And we hope to see you again next time.