From Code to Customers: Tech, Business & Leading from Both Sides

What does Generative AI really look like when you view it from both the technical and commercial sides of the business?

In this episode, we’re joined by two brilliant voices from MathWorks: Deborah Ferreira, Lead AI (NLP) Engineer – Generative AI, and Elisha Beech, Sales Manager for the UK & Ireland. Together, they bring two very different — yet highly complementary — perspectives on GenAI: Deborah from deep within the engineering and NLP world, and Elisha from the front lines of customer needs, strategy, and value.

We unpack how Generative AI is shaping real-world decision-making, why you don’t have to be a hardcore coder to thrive in tech, and how the industry is full of diverse roles beyond the stereotypes. Both guests also share candid reflections on stepping into management for the first time — what surprised them, what challenged them, and what they’re learning as new leaders in fast-moving tech environments.

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Transcript

Welcome And What We Explore

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Kaylee Bakeman, the Managing Director of Community and Partnerships at Sheikan Code, and today we're discussing from code to customers, tech, business, and lead-in from both sides. In this episode, I'm joined by two brilliant voices from MathWorks, Deborah and Alicia. Together they bring two very different yet highly complementary perspectives on Gen AI, and we're going to unpack a little bit what Gen AI really looks like when you view it from both the technical and commercial sides of the business. Welcome ladies. Thank you so much for joining me. It's an absolute pleasure to have you both here. We'd love to start with some introductions about who you are, what you do, how you got into tech to set the scene for our community. Alicia, shall we start with you?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you, Kaylee. Lovely to meet you and thanks for having us here. My name is Alicia Beach, and I'm a leader in our commercial team here at MathWorks in the UK. And by that I mean I lead a team of account managers, and our role is really nurturing customer relationships and essentially getting the products that people like Deborah work so hard at building out into the market and being used by companies all around the country. My first role was in technology consulting, and I kind of fell into that a little bit out of university. But since then have always been, yes I said, in customer-facing roles, but also within the tech industry. And when I say tech industry, that is quite broad, it's been working uh implementing software solutions at companies, it's been uh helping uh develop and deploy logistics platforms to customers, and now here at MathWorks, it's obviously uh selling and and working with customers that are using our project for their technical work as well. So it's sort of double tech um uh in this role. I think um another just quick thing, um MathWorks. I joined uh last summer. It's my first um role uh just becoming a new mum, so I have a toddler, uh, and it's my second one being in a management role as well. So lots of um, I guess, new new things I'm learning in this space.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Lots of change and transferable skills as well. Um having a toddler at home, I'm sure. Lots of negotiation. Exactly, exactly. Um, all those things that you bring back um once you become a parent. Um we you know what, we love to ask this question on the podcast of how people end up in tech because um we do have a lot of people that fall into tech. Um and uh it's one of those happy accidents though that people are like, I'm so pleased that I fell into the tech industry, but it wasn't really what I was planning. Um so we have lots of people that have that that that experience and then kind of um think actually, I wish I'd I'd wish I'd known about this as a career, you know, before and and done it at university. And um it when you were at university, out of curiosity, was there there something when you were younger that you kind of had your mind set on and um and then you know the world of tech obviously opened up to you, but was there something, you know, someone at school that was kind of inspiring you in a certain direction?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Um I was always more leaning towards like sciences and maths, and that's something sort of the logical problem solving um that comes with that space. Um I actually did a degree in economics, um, so not a tech degree, albeit it was more on the statistics side, so you know, quite heavily math-based. But I think what I found on like looking for a job at university, like, and you're even now versus you know, back then when I was graduating, like more companies are classed as tech now that maybe weren't. When you think back, you know, 10, 15 years ago, you yeah, maybe we're thinking of big tech or people just doing software development. Now a lot of companies, retailers, uh you know, finance institutions are technology leading, and that the tech is like sort of the core of their business model. So I think it's uh maybe more than what people kind of just think about in the if they think about tech, they think about Google, Apple, whatever. But there is a lot more that kind of falls into that bucket now. So it was very much this is an opportunity for a job. And then from there it's I found that it's uh something that I really a space I really enjoy working with. Um and I and I can maybe talk a bit more about this later, but just you know, being a bridge a bit between sort of the functional, the business side, and sort of the deep technical users that either I serve or I work with internally.

Deborah’s AI Engineering Path

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yes, definitely it's a lot broader than we think it is, and we we wish that more people knew that as well, um, and that they would consider tech as a career as soon as I come out of university or even study it. Um, because you're right, there are so many different jobs and so many companies that class themselves as tech now. Um, but we also still need the techies um as well. So um, Deborah, we'd love to hear a little bit about your route in um and and what you do at MathWorks. Tell us all about you. Sure, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Thank you for having me. So I work as an AI engineer at MathWorks, and my team is currently working on this product called MATLAB Copilot, which is our solution for providing AI assisted coding. And we also work in like general GI capabilities inside MATLAB. I have been at MathWorks for about four years, now a bit more than four years. And before that, I was actually doing a PhD in the field of natural language processing and particularly around live language models. So one thing I like to say is that I used to work I started working with live language models in the eye before it was cool. And it's funny because what at the time when I was doing my PhD, what we used to call like a large model, it's now super tiny today. Um in terms of how I got in tech, I would say like my my path was very clear from the beginning. It's almost like I didn't have a choice because I fell in love with tech very early in life. So my my dad, my brother are both in tech. And when I was a kid, my parents actually had a school to teach like programming and so on. So I would like sneak in into the classes and learn. And so very early, I was already in love with tech, basically. So it was a clear path for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah, wow, I haven't heard that before. That is like you you were just there doing the classes. How how amazing. Because a conversation that always comes up in our community is the lack of role models and the lack of visibility of people doing the job and and um actually seeing what a a role in tech would entail. But you were in the sick of it from a very young age, so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, I felt quite lucky, like I had my dad as a role model and motivating me, pushing me towards this.

Technical And Commercial Perspectives

SPEAKER_00 7:49

So I never know what people are gonna say on this podcast, and we we always want to know how you end up in tech, and that one's a new one on me. Um, but uh very, very lucky. Um so you both work from um very different angles um within Gen AI, um, from the technical side and the commercial side. How do these perspectives complement each other and where do they sometimes clash when it comes to real-world adoption?

SPEAKER_02 8:18

So maybe I don't know if you notice, like you agree with me, but I feel like at MathWorks, most of people are quite technical. So it's a bit different from other companies. So it's just at least for me, the people I have worked with, it's much easier to to go into the details, the technical details because of the the expertise people have. I don't know if you you share that, Alicia.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I think for I think we have good understanding. Obviously, we as a commercial team are talking with engineers and scientists, that is our market, and we need to be able to, you know, they are also obviously very techy and um are looking are using the tools that you are developing, Deborah. And um, it's our job to really communicate that that value to them. So like good understanding. I think you know, there is a competitive market in terms of you know putting the math works products out there, and and even in the tech industry, like challenging like the sort of the status quo of how people are working is tough, you know. Um, whether that be to even use a software where whether they're using Excel to then make the leap to be used to use Gen AI to do something that they might be doing by hand as well. So I think there's still that that can be a gap. It's more maybe on an individual or a company basis. Um, but I think yeah, it starts kind of with us internally if we start using it in our day-to-day job and like with you know trying to be leaders in this area through like the products that we're creating, but it makes it easier to like go out and you know, talk to people about it because we we we are on the receiving end of the benefits of that.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, yeah. Um I I agree, um, Deborah, from the people that I've spoken to at MathWorks, there's a very high bar as well, that's the people that that work at MathWorks. Um, so and and very technical, um, a very technical workforce. Um, but there is always that balance of striking of um people like yourselves, Alicia, who who are the ones that talk to the end users as well, and and what they would like. And I suppose there's always that I don't want to say clash in that sense, but that balance between this is what people actually need and this is what the technical team would would like to achieve. So I suppose it's kind of making a balance to ensure that it actually helps um the end user and is commercial as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

I think what's good about Matholks is like there's a good communication channels though between like sales teams and also with development teams as well. And customers have forum to to share what they'd like developed, which maybe is the genesis of like some of the co-pilot tools. Um maybe that was happening anyway, but cemented that direction. Um and I know that there's yeah, there's feedback always kind of going back and forth uh about how these things are developed, which is good.

What Tech Jobs Really Require

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yeah, yeah. Um and that also touches upon um the the misconception. We've already spoken about it a little bit, but the misconception that tech careers equals coding um as well, and that you have to be highly technical to be in a tech career. Um, based on your own roles at MathWorks, what do you think people misunderstand about working in the tech industry? Because it both of your teams need to work together, um, but you know, we you couldn't be, you couldn't function without one or the other. Um so tech careers doesn't just necessarily mean coding. Um but yeah, what what do you think on that that people kind of misunderstand about working in tech?

SPEAKER_02 11:59

So I hear that a lot, right? And like it's not like I'm there sitting in a dark room just writing code all the time.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Um Are you sure that's what we hear happens? They put you in the basement to do it, apparently, as well. Sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So I think that's one of the the the things people use uh as the argument to say that uh replace top 2 engineers. I think that some people have this very narrow view of engineering but there's so much more. And it's a really important aspect of actually understanding the user's needs. And like a lot of this comes from from um commercial, from marketing and so on, or other things that listed that we we just learn about those things by by going over the the communities that we have online. Um I would say it's way more than just writing code. I would even say that writing code is the easy part of my job.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, it's um it's a definite balance. Um I think would see we here the the stereotype of the the writing code and um put in the basement and and all of those things. Um but actually uh a lot of that um it is a misconception about working in tech because most of people that we speak to in tech say you're not working on your own as well. It's not you're not siloed working on your own. You have to have all of those soft skills that come with the technical skills as well, and they are just as important because you could be a really good coder and um just really bad at communicating, and and you know, you sit in there writing code all day doesn't help anybody and because you don't come with all of those soft skills where you need to communicate with people like Alicia and make sure that you meet the customers' needs and um that the business functions so um it's not just a case of I'm gonna become a coder and uh don't have to be good at anything else. Um but then Alicia from your side, you um you're on the commercial side. Um do you did you did you sometimes struggle with that? Did did you think that you went in thinking this is gonna be quite intimidating or I'm not gonna understand maybe a lot of the acronyms that are used? And we just like we like to bamboozle each other in tech with all the jargon. Like did you feel that at first and then were like, actually that's not the case?

Psychological Safety And Asking Questions

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah, I think I mean, as I mentioned, like with my first job from university, I've I I've always since you know I left, I've worked in tech in tech, I guess, uh in some shape or form, uh, but never been the technical person. Like I've dabbled in the programming. Um, but I've always been, I suppose, that person talking with business users, um, or like you know, working on sort of functional requirements for a solution and trying to be that bridge between those that are building, testing, deploying, etc., whatever that product is. And so um that technology has varied so much. And even here at MathWorks, like we talk to customers, my team looks after every industry, like customers in every industry. And even I guess the techie people at MathWorks, if you're you know, an software engineer and you talk to like um, I don't know, a mechanical engineer, or if you're working on signal processing and you talk to someone on fluid dynamics, there's probably new stuff you don't understand. So there's always a learning curve whenever it's a new role for me, or it's a new even a new project, new customer. Um, but I think like having the the broad understanding about how a lot of these systems work is important. How people like Deborah and her team function and like the software development lifecycle, that's important. And then just like having a good being at a company where people are, you know, operate as a team, and that that you know, you don't feel afraid to ask questions like what does that acronym mean? Can you just talk me through this workflow or whatever? That that helps that that makes a break, really. And I've been fortunate that every everywhere I've worked, people have been um willing to share. And and again, I don't it's not my job to be the deep expert, technical expert, um, but it is my job to be able to speak to um extra products and understand my my customers to a decent level. So um I'm not it's not daunting at this point, like I I expect it, but I know I have to you have to work on it, work at it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yes, definitely. We actually had a conversation on here recently about psychol psychological safety in the workplace and whether or not you feel like you can ask questions at work, um, because if you do work in a company where uh things like that, you might have a new client, they have different needs, you you're not expected to understand everything at first anyway. How do you feel asking questions at that company, especially where there's lots of technical jargon and you need to learn as you go? And not everybody feels safe at work asking. They kind of feel like there's that underlying feeling of, you know, I can't ask because people are gonna think I'm stupid and I'm gonna have to go away and look everything up because there's that that culture that's just kind of I I I can't ask my team questions. Um, but the ones that are functioning and and especially between technical teams and non-technical teams, you have to be able to ask questions and communicate.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah. I think I guess it depends on what kind of role you're in, but like I I have a team of and I have a a newer cloud manager that's joined, and part of um their onboarding, I've been it's not actually part of their formal program, there's a little bit about the the tech stuff, but I'm trying to set up sort of extra meetings with application engineers to my side just to talk about some go into another another level deeper of some of the technical stuff that comes up a lot. So it's sort of supplementary sessions to kind of get him and and me, so I'm still relatively new up to speed on things. I think having that people who are in leadership roles having the attitude and trying to encourage forums to ask those questions that can really help, you know, people that are new coming in to feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah, definitely. Deborah, have you found that on the techie side? Is that encouraged at least? Because some of our community members say when you work in a really technical role, there can be really high highs but really low lows. And sometimes you've got days where everything has really gone to plan, and then you've got other days where you're like, oh, just what is happening today. It's that that you know, asking questions and and encouraging each other to stay curious. Is that something that you've experienced on the technical side as well?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

So I have experienced a bit of that while I was doing my PhD, where there is this like a bit of uh people are a bit competitive in terms like, oh, I need to show I know more than this other person. Um but I feel like once I started my role here at Moff Works, I kind of slowly shifted from that mentality. Like I was I felt more comfortable asking questions. And as I became a manager, I tried to instill that culture into my team as well. And one way of doing that is by basically myself asking a lot of questions, and then other people might think it's also fine to ask. Yeah, so I try to do that a lot. Um and I try to share a lot of things with my team, things that they they should be reading, things that are interesting in the field, to kind of motivate this kind of sharing and like uh helping each other grow basically.

Gen AI Hype Versus Production Reality

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, that makes sense because they're gonna see it from you. And if yeah you're someone, especially when you step into the a management position or any kind of leadership, um, it can be very lonely because you think everybody now thinks I have the answer to everything. And most of the time you don't, you still need to ask, and that's a good thing when you're still asking, because as you said, it encourages your team to think I can still ask questions. I'm not expected to know everything either. Um just staying uh curious. Um what about the hype around gen AI? There is so much hype around it um in the media. Um what do organizations, what do they actually uh need, what are they ready for today compared to the the hype around what is actually said about it in in the news?

SPEAKER_02 21:04

So what I see is there is a lot going on, as you said, like there's a lot of going on in the news. So everyone feels this need, like I need to do something about it. I need to start using Gen AI. But Gen AI is not the solution to all the problems. So something that I always recommend uh every time someone is someone says, like, oh I'm thinking about using Gen AI for this thing is start asking the question what problem are you trying to solve? Is Gen AI the correct solution to that problem? So what problems are you trying to solve? And from uh the the biggest gap I see is Gen AI makes it very, very easy to come up with slashy demos, slash e examples. But then from going to that demo to actually something That is useful in production. That's a huge step. And that's something sometimes people don't understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

I I uh the flashy demos, um, I don't know if you've noticed this, but when you're at like a conference and you do and you see the keynote and they're on the stage and like the executive is really like running up and down usually, and like this is fantastic, and this is you know the future. And then um you go and you talk to somebody that's on the show floor, like actually on the exhibition floor, what they're using at their company, what they're actually doing, and they're like, Yeah, that keynote, we're about like five years behind really getting there. That's not actually what we need. That is uh usually the case. It's nice to see the flashy demo and what's coming next. But when you actually talk to the companies that are using it, they're like, No, we're nowhere near that. Um, Elisa, that must be so interesting for you, though, be talking to the customers about what it is that they need from a commercial aspect, and then actually, you know, Deborah might be there thinking we do all the flashy lights because I know what what's coming next.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Like, yeah, we get a lot of like can't we can we get it because create our models for us? Not quite, and you probably wouldn't want to use that. I think it's it's trying to, yeah, as Deborah said, like, what are you trying to do? Where is their efficiencies to be gained, like in the broader picture? Like, what are the the tasks, activities that take a long time that could be made a lot more efficient? Um, I suppose, like, even though it's it's it's the same perspective for us internally as a team, like we have a lot of customers we want to serve, we really want to focus on where we're gonna we as you know account managers gonna add value. Um and how how can we take some of the lower value, maybe more admin things to and and use Gen AI to um speed that up. But it's also, I think, for for us and for customers, it's it's kind of no excuse to not be like um prepared and have done research. And you know, when you approach a problem, whether it's an engineering problem or it's a commercial problem, like JI can really accelerate like sort of your research and gathering information, but you then still need to, you know, critically review and distill and you know figure out what's next. Um, but yeah, that is um, I think, you know, how we're trying to direct customers. Yes, you might not build your model for you, but you can get ideas, you can get um uh you know examples a lot quicker that then you know you can feed into um you know whatever you're building. So I think like any process, like it needs to be tried and tested and deployed consistently across the board as well. It's not you don't want each individual person kind of doing their own thing of different and of different quality as well. And before you know it, you don't really have any um sort of standard processes and things probably won't work as well. So I think that's something you know we're also trying to bear in mind as a team, uh, and also to see where customers are at in that regard. I'm getting the sense that that's what what customers are, you know, they do care about that too. They don't want just everybody kind of using their own sort of gen AI doing their own thing differently, but trying to find the the right solution and how it fits into their right process um as well.

New Managers In A Fast Field

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yes, and that when you look back on that and the company thinks, yeah, but what impact did that actually have on us? Where where did we actually see improvements? Um, and instead of everybody just kind of done their own thing and uh nobody tracked what was happening and we didn't actually move forward. Um definitely. I I wanted to ask you both, because you both recently stepped into management. Um what has been the most surprising or challenging part becoming a manager in a fast-moving tech environment?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

I think well I was in a management role in my last um my last company. I think what's different about this one, it's not necessarily due to it being fast moving or anything, uh, you know, um, but that is still the case. But I think I'm joining a team where um where my team has been already at MapWorks for a number of years. So I'm sort of the new person and becoming into a leadership role, whereas previously I'd sort of moved up through um the company. So I think it's been interesting just to try and find the balance between wanting to make an impact and like getting involved, but also, you know, pausing and giving myself a chance to learn and and not disrupting, you know, what is you know how people are working and uh you know if it's working well as well. So it's just a different approach for me, I suppose, that I haven't had to uh that I haven't experienced before. So yeah, but I guess an yeah, an added layer of challenge in that regard. But again, as I mentioned before, people have been very supportive. And I have good peers and mentors um that they're kind of giving me some guidance about, yeah, I guess one, how I can support my team better, um, and also learn from them given their years of experience here.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah, it's always a challenge stepping into management. But you're right, if it if it's a team that's been there a while and you're the new person, that also comes with its own um unique challenges as well. Um it's great that you said you have mentors um as well. We we always encourage people to find mentors inside their company and also outside their company, so you get different um uh uh experiences from both, and they they um share um different pearls of wisdom um from what it's like working in the company and then uh what people have learned from from outside as well. Uh, because management does come with its challenges. Um Deborah, what what has your experience been like uh stepping into management on on the techie side? How how have you found it so far?

SPEAKER_02 28:00

So thinking from the perspective of this fastest moving uh field. And and you mentioned this thing like as a manager, you're expected to have all the answers. Yes. And a field where no one knows what's gonna happen. Uh, that's why we can also go with that. Uh we're gonna make this roadmap, we're gonna make this plan, but we need to adapt because six months from now everything will have changed. We need to be able to adapt. So when you're writing code, you need to write code in a way that you know the code is gonna change. So I think that's that's the main challenge, is like the ground is shifting all the time.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah. That that takes a certain type of person as well. So um uh even even if you're working at a startup via big company, sometimes if you're a a smaller company or a company um like MathWorks that is constantly changing, and and as you said, Deborah, the ground is always shifting. That actually takes a certain type of person rather than somebody that wants to be in, you know, the the big corporate that's been there for years that doesn't really change much, and you sort of fit into your um role and and you and you do it, and it's hard to push new things through as well. Sometimes you need meetings for meetings and meetings to get anything done. Um, but it takes a certain type of person that's like, I absolutely thrive on that amount of change and how much we get to do in just inside one year within a company that things move so fast. Um, you both must have quite unique teams in that sense, like people that are very kind of they they need to be agile and they're quite, you know, uh up for trying new things and up for testing. Um is that would you agree with that? Are your teams kind of in that that mindset that they like to try new things?

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yeah, definitely. And I think just also having an awareness of like how the market's changing and what customers are saying, like you're not just heads down being like, I need to you know close this deal. It's like, you know, when you're talking to customers, just kind of being on the lookout for okay, what are the new projects they're working on? They've dropped something, why, like, um, and really kind of yeah, asking that next question, going a little bit deeper to understand like only what what dynamics are shifting. Uh, because that then then as you said, like feeds back into our work. We need to be dynamic to respond to that, but we need to first identify it before before we can respond. Uh so I think that's definitely something that the the team exhibits.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah. Yeah. Some people don't like that though. I I'm assuming like Deborah, surely techies are like, let's try and test, and but uh some people they don't like change. So they wouldn't be suited at a company like MathWorks.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Uh that's a good point. I think we have space for like I think we have like in my team I have multiple personalities. And there are people who like more like the stable and those people. They're gonna be really good. Like infrastructure work out of well. Uh the code based is very stable. So we need those people. They're the ones that are gonna make our system work fine. But we also need the the very curious people that want to try the latest things. So I feel like my team has a good balance of of the two personalities.

Career Advice And Self Advocacy

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, a nice balance of um uh those people that are like the rock that of the company that um are very stable. We do need those two as well. Um so for someone early in their career um or considering a move into tech, what advice would you give about building a career that doesn't necessarily follow a traditional technical um or leadership path? Do you do you have any advice for our listeners who might be thinking about coming into tech and anything you wish you'd been told as well?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

I think it's a nice follow-on question from what we were just discussing because you know, the market everything is changing so quickly, and like you know, whatever's point, like what you might be developing now might not be what's needed in six months. And but that goes for like maybe bigger picture stuff as well, like um you know, the t types of products in the market or types of roles that like you know a company will have might change. Um so I think just whatever role job you're in, just trying to understand the bigger picture and not necessarily just you know staying in your lane or just doing your immediate your responsible responsibility, but like get an understanding of how of the bigger picture works. So for example, for for me and my team, understanding how the development organization decides what products are developed, like and what that cycle looks like, um uh math works, because again, we are you know at the end of the day, like we've got to try and um drive consumption of of those tools. So I think that I think having that awareness of for yourself, but also looking for companies that value like curiosity and exploration as well. Um so I think uh yeah, uh just keep an open mind. I I never thought I'd be in uh like this role. I would never thought I'd work for for math works. Like this wasn't something that was sort of on my radar. I definitely have been a person to like sort of take next opportunity as it comes and trying to figure out what's what's best for me. Um and you know I wasn't aware of account management roles when I sort of left university and thought I would move into that space. Um and maybe in ten years' time I'll be something completely different, but I think again uh understanding the bigger picture um uh and how all sort of the different roles and teams uh fit together, uh yeah, I can open a lot of doors.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

So yeah, I I think you can work as well when you come out of university and you think that if I've studied it, I'm gonna have to go into it. And you don't quite realise until you're a few years into your career how squiggly your career can be, and that that is okay. And that it's like you said, Alicia, as long as you are open to change and how the industry is changing and you you go with that, it's that is okay as well. You don't have to have that um very set path in your career, and loads of people move around and try new things, and um, like you said, in six months some things you're working on won't be relevant, um, and just you know, go going with the flow.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Um with change, like comes up comes opportunity, doesn't it? So and I think again, just to speak just as someone who does not have a technical background, I think um if you're saying being curious, being logical, like problem solving, and then also like you know, talking to other people in technical roles, like there is a lot you can learn. I could never do Tebrah's job, not saying that, but I'm saying like do not be put off from working for a tech company or in the tech industry uh because it it feels too far removed. Because again, it's not everybody's job in the organization to be the technical expert. And um, there's still other skills, and there's industry expertise, soft skills, communication skills, creative skills, they are all valued as well. So uh just yeah, just think outside the box.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yeah, definitely. And um, Deborah, from your side, from the technical side, do you have any advice for anyone that is thinking um they are technical? They've just you know come out of a very traditional career path, coming into tech, or um we also get a lot of people in our community later in their careers who decide to suddenly become very technical as well. Do you do you have any advice for anyone that's you know considering taking that leap?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I think I think I agree with Elisa, be curious. I think that's the main the main thing keep learning because this the field moves very fast, um be adaptable. Um maybe it's fine to be slightly uncomfortable to think about the product of the fall, don't think about the things that you're working on, think about the future what you think. Uh that's I think that uh it's really important to be able to talk about your work. Uh make sure that you like like uh expose other people. There's no point in in doing all the good work if no one knows that you're doing that good work. So you need to advocate for yourself. I think that those are my biggest lessons for be the curious and advocate for yourself.

Final Takeaways And Thanks

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Yes, that's brilliant advice. Um, and something that you don't learn until you've been in your career for a little while, and you're kind of like, oh, I wish somebody had told me that when I went into work. Um could explain to all of that. Um ladies, uh, I could keep talking to you on this topic all afternoon, but we are already out of time. So Deborah and Alicia, thank you so much for coming on Spilling the Tea and sharing your journeys and your experiences of working at MathWorks and working with Gen I. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you both. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you so much. And for everybody listening, thank you as always for joining us. And we hope to see you again next time.