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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Tech Barbie Takes the Mic: ADHD, Authenticity & Smashing the Mould in Fintech
In this vibrant and unfiltered episode, we’re joined by Rae Hoskins—aka the Caffeine-Fuelled Tech Barbie - who’s flipping the script on what leadership looks like in the tech world.
From managing a restaurant at 17 to managing technology operations in fintech, Rae’s story is packed with grit, glitter, and game-changing insight. We dive into how one mentor’s belief sparked her journey, how she’s turned ADHD into her superpower, and why inclusivity and authenticity in tech aren’t optional—they’re essential. If you've ever felt like you didn’t quite fit the mould, this episode is your permission slip to break it entirely.
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Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Bateman, the Managing Director, community and Partnerships at she Can Code, and today we are discussing ADHD, authenticity and smashing the mold in fintech. I've got the incredible Ray Hoskins with me today, aka the Caffeine Fuel Tech Barbie, who's flipping the script on what leadership looks like in the tech world, and we're going to dive into how one mentor's beliefs sparked her journey, how she turned ADHD into her superpower and why inclusivity and authenticity in tech aren't optional. They are essential. Welcome, ray. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's a pleasure. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to have you on. I'm so excited about Chat and View about this topic. I would love to kick off with a little bit about you, if that's okay. Can you tell us a little bit about you and your journey so far?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I will kind of prepare you. That's a kind of long answer to a question. So my journey into the tech space is definitely not a cute one and I would say was certainly not linear in any way. I fell into it with all of the chaos and caffeine that I bring into every day in general, but I didn't grow up dreaming about working in tech like a lot of people do. I didn't have a five-year plan and I didn't have a polished roadmap. I grew up in what I like to refer to with my team and my leadership as survival mode. So I came from a really hard upbringing and for a long time my only goal was to make it out of that situation and to make it mean something. So I started working really early. I managed a restaurant at 17, running their operations, and I did all of that before I really knew who I was and how to live life in general. So I wasn't at the time trying to build a career or really looking for a career pathway. I was more so just trying to make ends meet, pay my bills and stay afloat. More so just trying to make ends meet, pay my bills and stay afloat.
Speaker 2:Once I left the restaurant space, I eventually landed in the credit union world, which I think is really where my path to tech started and where that catalyst from. So I worked at their call center and when I was there I obviously dealt with member questions and inquiries over the phone, having to walk people through complex systems and then for anyone who's not in the credit union space the back end operations of a credit union. You have a ton of different systems, you work in data points you have to learn and sort of like your own entire acronym language that you have to understand and interpret. So that got me incredibly curious, to the point where I started asking the questions. I think all of us do at some point in your career when you find something that you're interested in, which is why are we doing things this way and couldn't we do this a little bit better? So that curiosity is really, I think, what opened the door for my pathway into tech.
Speaker 2:I had a mentor at the time who I had no idea would eventually turn into one of the most influential and amazing people in my life. Her name is Ashley, but she happened to be making the rounds in our call center working on updating some equipment and she overheard me on the phone with a member and she stopped by my desk at the end of the call, waited till I disconnected, tapped me on the shoulder and said hey, we have a job opening in IT and I really, really want you to apply for it. I think you would be perfect For me. That was one of the few moments in my life I can say that I truly felt seen. I had somebody that I looked up to and aspired to be like.
Speaker 2:Because of who Ashley is as a person, look at me and say, hey, I see potential in you and I want to figure out where we can take that. So because of her, I'm proud to say that today I am the technology operations manager for CU NextGen, which is a fintech, or a CUSO, which is a credit union service organization dedicated to leading strategy automation and operations for credit unions across the US. I hold multiple degrees. I have a wall of certifications in tech, but I still don't think I've reached the peak of my journey or anywhere near the end of it. I still don't think I've reached the peak of my journey or anywhere near the end of it. I'm a lifelong learner and anybody who knows me knows that I will likely be 85, still rocking a pink power suit and asking questions, trying to figure out how to fix what's broken in the industry that I work in.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I have so many questions from what you just said. I love your story. I want to start with actually asking you a little bit about how you ended up managing a restaurant at 17. That must have really managed you. That must have been such an experience. What was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I actually started out as a server at that restaurant. It was what I always joke is my first official big kid job, because I'd worked a lot growing up on farms and just doing little odd jobs here and there to make extra money. But that was the first job I applied for that I had to fill out all of the paperwork that no one prepares you for, so much to the point where I actually wrote down my social security number wrong on the form because I'm like there's nobody here to teach me how to do this. But when I was serving and waiting tables I just loved making the person-to-person connection, getting to know people's stories, having my regulars and, nerdily enough, I should have probably seen at the time I really was interested in tech because I learned our point of sale system and actually did some in-house development for our point of sale system.
Speaker 2:But after being there for about I think it was six or eight months, our manager at the time unfortunately had a family emergency and had to leave and so we didn't have anybody to lead the store and our owner lived a few times away. So I just said you know what? What's the worst that can happen? She tells me no. So I picked up the phone and called her and I explained to her you know I really have a passion for this. I want to learn and understand the ins and outs of business. Because at the time I thought you know what, maybe this is it for me, like maybe that can be what I do as my career. And she said she really appreciated my authenticity and my willingness to ask the question. So she gave me a chance.
Speaker 2:I got to manage underneath her son who was kind of like the GM for that location, her son who is kind of like the GM for that location and they taught me everything from accounting to ordering to running back a house, making schedules, you name it. And I loved it. I loved it so much. But I got to a point where I knew that wasn't what I wanted to do forever, because it started to be less of an outlet and an exciting come into work type of moment and more into I'm exhausted. So I very much still love the experience and appreciate that she gave me that opportunity. But that really just came about because I said you know what the worst that could happen is she tells me that I'm not old enough, I'm not what she's looking for, or I'm not skilled or prepared enough to do it. Um, and I'm very fortunate that she looked at me and she saw potential in me too.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's such a thing with you. People look at you and say, you know what? There's potential in that girl and I want I can see something, I'm going to give her a shot. Do you now look at other people in that way? Do you now look at, like you see, some young people and you're kind of like you know what? Somebody saw something great in me that perhaps I didn't see in myself at the time and that it's so important to almost, like, push somebody else in the direction and say, like, apply for this, try this. Like, are you really mindful of that now, because that's happened to you a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually so kind of one of my mantras or phrases I live by is if I do nothing else with my life, I want to inspire somebody else to see the potential in themselves that they don't see on their own. So I definitely do that, to the point where I've stayed up late at night with friends until midnight rewriting resumes. I've gone to interviews and waited in the parking lot with them. I have sent them jobs and basically volunteered to apply for it for them or on their behalf.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love setting and truly, at a human level, understanding people, understanding what inspires them, what gets them excited, what, for lack of better terms kind of sets their soul on fire and makes them go. You know what? This is it. This is why I want to get up in the morning. This is the thing that I want to do, this is how I give back or this is where I feel the most authentic in myself, and then helping them align and figure out whether it's a career path or whether it's a hobby or an interest or something they do from a volunteer perspective of how they have that outlet, because I think everybody needs that outlet in their life and unfortunately, I think the way corporate America and jobs are structured in general is it's usually get this body of work done, but they don't always align that body of work with a person that's truly passionate about doing it. I think a great example is accounting. Accounting bores me to no end. I'm also dyslexic, so accounting is difficult because numbers are difficult for me.
Speaker 1:But there are people that I'm friends with who you mention a spreadsheet or balancing or an expense report and they light up like a Christmas tree and that is what I think people need to be searching for yes, definitely connecting that passion, and you're absolutely right because, like you said, at the restaurant it gets to that point where you go past enjoying it to just exhausted and then thinking I need to move on and do something else, whereas when you're really passionate about what you're doing in your career, even when you're really exhausted, you kind of see it as like you know what this. I'm meant to be here, I'm meant to be doing this and we will get through these challenges. There's a definitely a different feeling when, when you really do love something. Your journey so it obviously wasn't traditional of starting in restaurants and then moving to credit unions and then into IT. What would you say to someone who's stuck in a role they don't love but they don't see a path forward either?
Speaker 2:So I think the first thing I would say to anybody that is listening to this, that is in that position because I think we've all been there at some point is you have to start giving yourself permission. And I know that's a weird phrase or a weird way to word that, but I think for the longest time when I felt stuck in my career or like I was in a position that just didn't align with who I was or who I wanted to be, I wasn't giving myself permission to dream bigger or to pivot or to do something risky, because I always thought about well, if I did that, you know all of these things could happen or it could affect these parts of my life. Or, you know, I feel stuck because I don't see that path forward. I don't know what other options are out there for me and I'm nervous to look for them, or I'm afraid I'm not going to find something that I like? Um, which again is is that not giving yourself permission to be who you are and to accept who you are and to take a little bit of a risk, which I know is scary for some people? You are and to accept who you are and to take a little bit of a risk, which I know is scary for some people.
Speaker 2:I am very much a risk taker, but it's a skill set that I think we all have to remind ourselves all the time is we always have an option and I tell my team this constantly at work when we're faced with a really difficult problem and it seems like the only way out is through it. Sometimes that is the case, but there's always an option. You can always put that problem down and go focus on something else. You can always pick up a different problem and occupy your mind with that and come back with new ideas, but there's always an option. You just have to give yourself the permission to go after it. So, if you're stuck in a job that drains you whether that's emotionally, mentally, creatively stop saying I wish or someday, and really start saying the phrases to yourself of you know what. I'm figuring this out. I'm making a change. I'm going to write my own blueprint because I think that's where things really start to shift for people is when you start to give yourself that permission.
Speaker 2:When you start to put those positive affirmations out there for yourself and thinking those type of thoughts, it really helps you take that uncomfortable leap.
Speaker 2:Without a plan, without a guarantee behind it, but it helps you build that quiet belief that you could do more than what the role you're in today is allowing you to do. You really start to listen to the parts of you that want more for you, and that's where I think you truly find that spark or that fire like we talked about. You find what makes you feel alive, what makes you lose track of time in the best ways, to where your 16-hour workday doesn't even feel like you've been working for 16 hours because it just feels like fun to you. And then I think the last thing I would remind somebody who feels stuck is you don't owe anybody else in this world a watered down version of what you want your life to be. You owe it to yourself to chase your passions boldly, in a way that almost scares you and in a way that truly makes you excited for what you're doing oh, just, I love everything you just said.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that you, you talk about not just making a blueprint but almost being disciplined enough to turn that into action as well, because you're the only person that's going to do that. Because when we were talking um, just before we started this, you said you worked until one and then you still got up and went for your run at four. So that's discipline. You know, you didn't think actually I work really late, I could just skip my run. Today you've still done it. So then start work at six. So it's, you said you know kind of finding those parts of you that you know really are ignited and that's that's so. You know, making sure that you find that time for for you and for you to do it as well, is so important, because you're so right, the year just goes by and you haven't done anything for yourself and you haven't moved forward in your career or changed jobs or whatever it may be. And I know for some people obviously and we spoke about this on this podcast before it depends where you are in life and some people have got certain commitments, like family commitments, and they might be in a stage of their life where they've just had young children and they're not really thinking about this is the time for me to to be, you know, changing. But when you are in that season where you can make a move and make things better for yourself, just to be disciplined enough to say you know what I'm going to make a move and make things better for yourself, just to be disciplined enough to say you know what I'm going to make a change and this is what I'm going to do, and, like I love that you said, make a blueprint so in just would make those small habits would just make such a difference to somebody's day. Um, I love that.
Speaker 1:I took a lot from that, by the way, what you just said. So, even if no one else listening to this episode does, I took a lot from that. But you also, you talk a lot about your mentor. You mentioned her earlier and her believing in you, and you mentioned that moment where she walked up to your desk and said you know there's a job and I think you should apply for it. How do you pay that forward today? Because you mentioned that yourself with, like, making sure that you try and inspire other people. How do you now pay that forward Because you, that lady, made such a difference in your life to say you know what? There's something here that I think you should go for.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Ashley, like I said, is she is one of those people. I'm so fortunate that our paths crossed in life and that she took that chance and she took the risk of even talking to me, because I think starting a connection with should do this thing For me. I have kind of taken what she's taught me in being my mentor and really turned that into a personal mission for myself. So my mission is to be that for other people. Like I said, I want to inspire other people to see the potential in themselves that they don't even realize. Is there so a part of that specific to tech? Because I think this is an industry that is lacking in a lot of ways of that creativity and ingenuity that people bring into the field. I started teaching girls who code, so I teach coding from fourth grade, all the way through high school. I even have some students who've gone on to college that still reach out to me, ask questions, want to be involved in different things that I'm doing, which I absolutely love. But I think through that pathway it has really not only given back to a community that I think is underrepresented in the technology field, but I have learned and gained so much from it, which I think is a part of mentorship. A lot of people don't realize it's not you giving tools and resources to other people, but there's so much you can gain from that as well. I also help young women see themselves in the tech field. You know long before the world tells them that they don't belong here. So I make it a point to anytime there's an opportunity to speak at our local high school or college and career readiness center around technology, specifically AI, because that's one of my huge passions.
Speaker 2:I always make it a point to show up, but I don't show up in the standard corporate way. I'm not in a navy blue suit. I don't come with my business cards. I don't show up in the standard corporate way. I'm not in a navy blue suit. I don't come with my business cards. I don't come with a briefcase or what people would typically think when they think of someone in tech. I show up loud and bold and covered in glitter, because that's who I am and I think everybody needs to be able to envision themselves in the role that they're aspiring for.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the other ways as weird as it might sound is I show up authentically as who I am, so that other people who are like me or who have come from a background like mine don't look at our industry and say I don't belong there because I don't look like what that industry expects me to look like or I don't come from where other people in that industry do. And then the last thing I do as a part of that mission is I try to connect people with other mentors. I am a part of several different organizations across the state of Kentucky, where I'm from, but also across the US that support women in IT or just people in the tech field in general, making tech more accessible, whether that's a certification, whether that is getting people into college and career readiness programs. And then the last thing I do which is the simplest and I think any and everybody could do this is every group chat that I'm added to, whether that's on LinkedIn, zoom, webex team, every email thread I'm in, every job interview that I've either given or been a part of, and, I would say, every single room I walk into. I make it a personal mission, one to get to know the people in that room on a very deep and personal level.
Speaker 2:I believe in making everybody feel seen, valued, heard and appreciated for who they are and what they bring into a situation or conversation. But on the flip of that too, I am anybody's biggest hype man. I can find any reason in the world to make you feel like you are the most amazing person in the world, because I truly and genuinely believe that everybody is in their own unique way. So I think, if you take nothing else out of how that's changed my life and how I pay it forward today is I walk into everything I do with that same fearless energy that Ashley walked up to me with of hey, I see this in you and I think you need to do this, and I challenge and encourage everybody to kind of carry that same mantra forward. If you do nothing else, find somebody in your life you care about, somebody that you look at and they just they make you happy and they light you up and find ways to feed that back into them and then give that back out to other people too.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. I love that you said that you show up as you as well, because that's so right in the tech industry that so many people say they can't relate to anyone. Or even you go for an interview and you're there at the interview panel and you can't relate to anyone. Or even you go for an interview and you're there at the interview panel and you can't relate to anybody. That is there. So it's it's hard for you to think how am I going to fit into this company as well? So I know a lot of companies do a lot of work on trying to get more role models and just women in the actual interview process to encourage more women to think, actually, I could see myself at that company, I could see myself in that company, I could see myself in that person.
Speaker 1:So you showing up as you, in pink and glitter, would just inspire so many other girls who are that way. You would say, actually there are other ladies that are doing this and they look just like me and they sound just like me and I can really see myself doing that. Whereas imagine if you did as you said water yourself down. Those girls would just think well, you know, I have to be that version to be in tech and that's such a myth about working in technology.
Speaker 1:We talk to a lot of data scientists on here as well and we try and bust the myth that things like when you say I'm a data scientist, scientist, it's going to be really boring because that's what people think about working in data. So the same about working in tech it's still considered as one of those industries as well. That sounds really nerdy and boring and the more people that show up looking like you, the more they think actually that could be a really good career. But yeah, it's so important to be yourself in that way to inspire others, definitely. I wanted to ask you a little bit about being neurodivergent as well. So, as someone who's neurodivergent, how has ADHD shaped the way you work, lead and think creatively in a high pressure tech environment?
Speaker 2:and think creatively in a high-pressure tech environment. So I would say ADHD. To a lot of people when you say that phrase immediately is either a red flag or they see it as a negative. But for me I see it as my advantage, and that's also kind of a weird concept for people to wrap their head around at first. But the best way I can explain it is am I a scattered mess of a person? Most of the time? Absolutely. If my brain were a web browser, I would have 49 tabs open and three of them are playing music and I can't figure out which ones they are.
Speaker 2:But while my brain operates kind of like a mix between a pinball machine and a magic eight ball, I also can do things, because of my ADHD and because I'm neurodivergent that don't make a lot of sense to other people, but I kind of relate it back to AI, which is probably why I'm so passionate about that subject. Artificial intelligence, if you've messed with it on any level, can make rapid decisions in a matter of milliseconds and depending on how they're trained which I won't go into because again, I'm a nerd will make those decisions at an advanced scale. So those decisions are backed by such good logic and data, and that's kind of how my brain works. Again, because of the childhood I had and the background I grew up in, where I was very much in survival mode for a long time, my ADHD now allows me to see the big picture and micro details at the exact same time, so I can pivot between problem solving, working on something that's creative, and then leading from a place of both logic and being intuitive and solution-driven at the same time, I guess is the best way to say it. So, while I feel things very deeply, while I definitely overthink things in the absolute best way, I can also empathize and strategize at the exact same time, which is not a skill set that I think comes naturally or easy to a lot of people, and I'm very fortunate I didn't have to necessarily learn that.
Speaker 2:It's just a part of the way ADHD makes my brain work. So it became my gift when it comes to technology, in the sense of how I show up in the roles that I've held, especially when I get put into a very high pressure, chaotic situation, because my brain is wired and built for chaos. Everything when it is calm to me feels kind of foreign and weird, and the more all over the place it gets, the more it starts to make logical sense and I can make those connections. So I know what it's like to feel like somebody who maybe doesn't think they fit in a role or a position. Because of that, I say this a lot to my friends and my friends are very quick to remind me of what I tell them when they say the same thing to me.
Speaker 2:But I constantly do kind of this self-check-in with myself because of my ADHD Am I talking too fast? Am I being too loud? Am I too much? Am I not showing up as enough in this situation? Because I'm being too conscious of my neurodivergence. And every time I have one of those moments or one of those days, my friends are very quick to remind me that you are the person that decides if you're enough and you're also the person that decides if you're too much, and neither one of those things are wrong and they can both coexist at the same time. So I think, when it comes to ADHD as a whole and the way that it helps me lead and work, is that I can empathize with people a lot more, and I work very hard in the industry that I'm in to build systems, whether that's technology or actual systems through leadership and the way that we coach and drive our teams that are built for people like me, whether that's ADHD, being neurodivergent in general, or even being dyslexic. I very much focus on how can we make our industry and the way that we lead in our industry better served for people like me, but also how do we uplift and build up people like me, because those are the people we need.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. And do you remember a time when you didn't feel that way? How did you feel before that you kind of turn this into your superpower and now you understand it's an advantage for you. But how did you feel before that? Were you kind of like I just I don't fit, like what? Do you remember a moment where you kind of like, actually, this, this could be good?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would say, before I realized that my ADHD is my superpower, I very much felt odd in the situations that I was in. So one of the biggest ones I can remember and I joke about this all the time because my office today is literally neon pink, like the whole thing. I work from home, so I'm very fortunate I get to decorate it how I wish, as long as my Zoom background is appropriate. But I worked in a corporate setting. I had a cubicle and in that cubicle I decorated every square inch of it. I could fill with either color pictures of my friends and family, I had fun pens and notepads just to make my workspace feel a whole lot more like me. And at the time I was 20, 21.
Speaker 2:And I remember coming into work one day and I got a very nice on letterhead memo from our facilities department that basically told me I needed to make my desk more work and age appropriate. And to me that didn't make a lot of sense. I understood it applied to a policy, so obviously I needed to be in line with that policy. But it didn't make a lot of sense to me from the age appropriate and work professional standpoint because I was just trying to show up as who I was, and that's when it really started to click for me that who I was isn't always going to be accepted by everybody else. So in that moment I definitely did, you know, redesign and redo my desk to make it more work appropriate and make the people I work around more comfortable and align with the policy. But then that's when I really started to look for where I work and where I choose to exist outside of work. I want those to be areas that I can show up as me, whether that is me going on a 45-minute impromptu TED Talk about a subject that we're covering at work, or whether that is me spending four hours doing a deep dive into a problem, making six spreadsheets for it, analyzing those, putting them together and giving an executive summary on it. I can do all of that effectively because of my ADHD, but I don't need to show up as a different person in spite of it. So I think that was one of the really pivotal moments for me that made me realize this isn't where I want to spend the rest of my career.
Speaker 2:I want to work somewhere that looks at me and sees my ADHD as my superpower, the same way that I do and I'm very fortunate. The company I'm at today, my leadership, very much embraces who I am and they know that randomly, on team calls, I will go on a 45-minute impromptu TED Talk about something I am incredibly nerded out about. But they also give me grace in the moments where my job and what's asked of me don't always necessarily align with my ADHD. A really good example of that is this is not true for everybody. I think ADHD and neurodivergence in general get very generalized in that sense.
Speaker 2:So this statement may not apply to everybody who has ADHD, but for me, my ADHD allows me to be incredibly organized in certain moments and then in others it is true and honest chaos. So if you could see my desk right now, I have sticky notes galore. They're all different colors and each one of those colors associates and means something to me. So I've had to build systems for myself that kind of help keep me organized.
Speaker 2:But there are certain times at work where I will be assigned a task and I know because of my ADHD I am a procrastinator, so I like to put things off until the absolute last minute. But in that final hour I will produce something far better than I could have made in the three months you gave me to do it. So I've had to design systems to help me in that. But my leadership is also very aware that in those moments I'm going to do what works best and aligns best with my neurodivergence and the way that I show up. So we have open and honest conversations around it. But I think that's one of the things in any career field or pathway that's really important is to find somewhere that aligns with you, that sees you and doesn't look at the way you show up and the way that you work and what works for you as a challenge, but instead looks at it as a way they can meet you and learn from you and adapt to the way that you work and learn.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and some companies are really good at that and they're really good at retaining good talent, because they're very mindful of people, not just people that are neurodivergent, but in lots of different ways as well. Some companies are just really good at listening to their people and building a culture where you are heard, um, and you can definitely tell that with uh, whether or not people are moving companies and where they're going and why. Um, and you mentioned a little bit, um, about um, uh, turning up and being yourself as well. Um, and because you mentioned there about your desk, um, and the way that, uh, you needed to change your desk, which is just ridiculous, um, but you said, uh, you you're basically passionate about breaking that stereotype of what tech leaders should, should look like.
Speaker 1:Um, and I wanted to ask you about the, the biases or barriers that you face and how you challenge them, because now you know the importance of showing up as yourself and that that is so important, and it's not a kind of a, you know, take it or leave it attitude. It's not like I can just be anything and, you know, just go totally over the top and offend everybody, but why water down all of the really good things about yourself. So how, along the way, how have you kind of faced those challenges along the way, because they must as well have, uh, you know, an effect on you along the way? Are you kind of like, am I, am I meant to be, you know, am I meant to be changing my style myself? Like, how have you, you know, uh, coped with the like, the challenges that have come up along the way?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I would say on that vein of conversation, I have very few times in my life found a room in the tech world or in corporate america and I use the word room loosely. Obviously a lot of things happen virtually today where I have walked into it and not immediately been judged or immediately been looked at as oh, that's not what I expected and that's something that's taken, to your point, a very long time for me to become comfortable with and to kind of learn the rules of engagement around showing up authentically as yourself, and that's not to say change who you are or water yourself down in any way. But I think there is a certain time and place for everything and it's really understanding and knowing what that time and place is and what level of authenticity you show up with, I guess, is the best way to say it. So for me, I think, in the tech space and in corporate America in general, there's the stigma of you have to have a certain look, you need to be buttoned up as a female, you need to be soft-spoken, politically correct, neutral, very polished. I can say with full honesty I am none of those things. So I show up with my hair, probably way too big and overdone. I am obviously very heavily tattooed if you've ever seen me in person and I don't always hide those. I am very quick to give my opinion on a situation if I think someone is being treated unfairly or poorly, and I also show up with my full heart. So one of the things my team had to adapt to pretty quickly is, every time I hang up a call with my team, one of the things I say is love you. Bye, as loud as I can, and they all know that Some of them love it and some of them don't, but it's who I am.
Speaker 2:So, I think, when it comes to understanding those kind of rules of engagement or how to show up authentically as yourself but do it in a way that makes you comfortable, doesn't water it down for other people, but doesn't make them uncomfortable at the same time, it's really, I think, understanding your audience. So obviously, if I'm doing an on-site visit with a client and I'm meeting with their executive C-suite, I may not show up where you can see all of my tattoos and in a neon pink jumpsuit. I'm probably going to wear something that is considered more business professional, but that's not going to change who I am at the heart of me as a person. I'm still going to show up with my personality, my heart, my drive, my passion and my love for what I do, but I'm going to change the way that I present myself from an outfit perspective. The same way, when I do a lot of my work remotely, so people don't see me in person very often A lot of times it's whatever profile picture I've uploaded to Zoom for the day and as a result of that, I show up more authentically as myself by being who I am, in the sense of I show up honestly for my team. I am very, very transparent in what I do and how I work through situations from a logic perspective and I'm not afraid to be emotional, whether that is big emotions because I'm passionate about something, or deep intellectual emotions on a topic and understanding all sides of it before we come to a collaborative decision on it.
Speaker 2:I think if I were to pretend to be somebody else just to be accepted, then I'm not really doing myself any favors, but I'm not setting a good example for the next generation to be who they are.
Speaker 2:So, as weird as it sounds, I refuse to do that. I have a very good friend of mine who told me, actually, when I interviewed for the job I'm in now, he said when you show up for that interview, show up unapologetically as yourself. And that is a piece of advice that will forever stay with me and I tell people that constantly now. It doesn't matter if being unapologetically yourself is having a very deep Southern accent, like some of my friends do, or if it means that you do show up in a pink power suit covered in glitter and chugging caffeine, like I am most of the time. You have to find what feels right for you, what feels the most comfortable for you, and then make sure that that aligns with the position that you're in and the situations that you're showing up in. So I guess long story short is just show up authentically as you and what feels right for you, and the right people will gravitate towards that, and the people who don't vibe with that, they don't vibe with that and they can go find less somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, and you know as well that your friends same turn up as you because you're interviewing for the job. But you need to make sure that you're going to be happy where you're interviewing as well and that you want to land at that job as well. I've always thought that with personally working in tech, there's so many options to be, so many different things. You can dress up when you want and you can dress down when you need as well. So, like you said, you know you can dress for whatever it is you're going to, but you don't always have to be really formal working in tech and a lot of people are not, or working in tech and a lot of people are not, whereas I've noticed when sometimes we hold events with, like banks or finance companies, and when I've been at events like that and I've noticed the people that work in the corporate world and they all look and dress exactly the same and I thought to myself I could never work in one of these places. That's just so. Not me, but that some people like that. They like that. You know they show up as the same every day and that's kind of that's what they like and they fit into that environment. But if I had to go to an interview to one of those places and then I thought, oh gosh, is this going to be my day every day? Like I just I couldn't. I'm going to need some colour here.
Speaker 1:People, you know, if you turn up at that interview and you decide, actually this role is not for me, it's not just for them to to pick you, it's also for you to decide whether or not you're going to feel comfortable and happy at that company every day. So your friend is so right to turn up unapologetically, you, um will really help you as well. Um, and that leads into imposter syndrome, because I wanted to ask you about that. When you're kind of feeling like you, you don't belong somewhere as well, on that feeling and a lot of our community members they ask us about that all the time and that when you start to realize lots of other people are feeling the same way that you're feeling, that helps, um. But what would be your go-to advice for someone feeling like they don't belong at the table, even when they do?
Speaker 2:I would say to that just start, stop. Easiest statement I can make is imposter syndrome is a liar period. I could end it, I will going, but imposter syndrome 100% is a liar. It will try to convince you that the position that you're in whether that is presenting to an audience on a particular topic, whether that's writing a white paper, whether that's even just attending a meeting around something that falls under your area of purview or something that you maybe do know nothing about imposter syndrome will try to tell you that, oh, you just got lucky to be here. You know you're one mistake away from everybody in that room or in that situation finding out that you have no idea what you're talking about. But the truth behind that is that's just your brain trying to trick you. That is every outside negative thought, noise or phrase that's ever been said to you smushed together that we call imposter syndrome because we have to give it a name. But that's just that reflected back in your brain and the best way to combat that, I think, is to do the polar opposite of it. Think immediately in that thought. Yeah, that's just my brain being mean to me and that's not great. I should do something that's better for me.
Speaker 2:So you know, obviously, think to yourself if you're in that room, it's because you earned the right to be there, it's because somebody saw potential in you and invited you to be a part of that, or it's because you've done the work to deserve to be standing there, listening, talking and participating in those types of conversations. And if somebody gave you that seat at the table, or even if you took it and made your own table and built your own seat, it's because your presence adds value in that moment. And I think you really have to remind yourself of it, that you don't have to fake it till you make it, because you're already there, you're showing up, you know what you're talking about. And even if you're walking into a room and the first thought in your mind is everybody else in this room knows more on this topic than I do, I think that's great. You should want to put yourself in rooms where you're surrounded by people who do know more than you, because that's how you grow and that's how you learn. And I think also, when it comes to the whole oh gosh, everyone's going to find out. I don't know this one thing, or I'm going to get asked a question and I'm not going to know the answer to it. It's okay if you don't know the answer.
Speaker 2:The best way to show up in those moments and again to combat that imposter syndrome is to just be honest hey, I don't know the answer to that question, but I can go do some research really quick and come back and find out for you. Or another thing I love to do in those moments is be an advocate for somebody else. If I know that one of my team members is a subject matter expert on the thing that I got asked, because maybe someone looked at my job title and said, oh yeah, you're definitely going to know the answer to that question, let me ask you and I don't Great, hey, my friend over here, actually that's their area of expertise. I'm going to pass that question off to them and let them speak on that topic. That does two things it empowers and uplifts somebody else. It shows that I'm transparent and honest and not sitting here trying to fake who I am and what I know. And then it also allows me the opportunity to learn from that person that I just advocated for to speak. Now I get to hear their thought, their idea, the way that they respond to that question and take that as a learning opportunity, not only on the subject I didn't know something about, but how they show up and respond in that situation too. So I think my biggest advice kind of to round that out is document what you are proud of and the successes that you've had.
Speaker 2:I do that through gratitude journaling.
Speaker 2:Every single day, after I do my morning run, I sit down and think about the things in my life I'm thankful for.
Speaker 2:I also document things that I've done that day or that week that I consider my wins, and I save those obviously in my journal, but also as mental receipts.
Speaker 2:When I have a horrible day and I let imposter syndrome creep in and I don't tell it to go away and I don't remind myself of the amazing person that I am and all of the knowledge and skills that I bring to the table, I sit down and I look at that gratitude journal or I go through messages that I have with my friends.
Speaker 2:I actually have a notes app on my phone that one of my friends is amazing and she sent me a note one day that it literally is just titled for the really hard days and the very first line that she put in there is to remember who the hell you are is to remember who the hell you are and I read that on those horrible days and it makes me smile and imposter syndrome completely disappears because you know what I do, remember who I am and I'm not afraid to show up as that. So I hope that anybody who faces imposter syndrome has somebody in their life to remind them, and if you don't, then let this be it. When you have a hard day, when you are standing in the doorway to a room that you do not feel like you belong in, my best advice to you is to take five seconds, take a breath and remember who the hell you are.
Speaker 1:Yes, I absolutely love that because, also, you don't have to listen to every voice that comes into your head Like challenge, that, yes, we all have those moments where we go, yes, I shouldn't be here. But you don't have to listen to every voice that comes into your head like challenge, that, yes, we all have those moments where we go, yes, I shouldn't be here. But you don't have to listen to that. You sit about, just. You know a voice that's just being mean, that's, that's what turns up. You know you don't have to agree with what you're thinking at that point.
Speaker 1:Um, I had a lady on here. She said to me like you journaling um, she does it for work. So she said, every time we achieve something at work, I write it down and she calls it a brag book and it's easier to go back when you're having those days. She said, I just look back through that book and I think these are all the things that we've actually achieved as a team and all the things that I've done this year and previous years, which actually helps for when you do want to move on in your career as well, because it's all there outlined. But she said, it helps me so much to sometimes think you know what we have achieved a lot and might be having a bad day or might be working on a really challenging project, but as a team, we have achieved a lot. So I love that.
Speaker 1:Just writing it down, remembering to write down the good things that are happening to you, whether they're personal life or at work. It's so important to remember that. So I absolutely love everything you just said, and I could keep going with you a lot longer on this topic, because I have absolutely enjoyed chatting with you today, but we are already out of time. So, ray, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure to have you on here, so thank you for taking time out to join us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, thank you for having me and for everybody listening, as always. Thank you for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
