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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Succeeding in Cybersecurity's Male-Dominated World
Join us for an insightful episode where we delve into the challenges and triumphs of navigating the male-dominated cybersecurity industry. Our guest, Jurgita Lapienytė, Chief Editor at CyberNews, brings a wealth of experience in cybersecurity policy and workforce dynamics. Her journey is a testament to resilience and expertise, offering a unique perspective on breaking barriers and amplifying women's voices in tech.
Whether you're a seasoned professional or new to cybersecurity, this episode promises to inspire and educate on the path to success in a challenging field.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
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Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Kayleigh Batesman, the Managing Director, community and Partnerships at she Can Code, and today we are discussing succeeding in cybersecurity's male-dominated world. I've got the incredible Jurgita Lapinita, chief Editor at CyberNews, who brings a wealth of experience in cybersecurity policy and workforce dynamics, and today we're going to delve into the challenges and triumphs of navigating the male-dominated cybersecurity industry. Welcome, yagita. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Well, hi and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm really excited for this conversation it is a pleasure to have you on and we'd love to kick off, if it's okay, with a bit of background about you, to set the scene.
Speaker 2:And we'd love to kick off, if it's okay, with a bit of background about you to set the scene. Yeah, so I've been with CyberNews for five years now and that's the amount of time I've been in the tech world, in cybersecurity world, right Before I've been a business news journalist for over a decade, you know. Yeah, so I am, you know, I'm a mother, I have a five-year-old daughter and I think it's really important to emphasize that because, you know, by inspiring others, I first I try to inspire, you know, her. Basically, I also, you know, have a little zoo at home. It's not really a zoo, but I do have. You know, I love animals, I love running. I have a team of over 12 journalists. So I, you know, I have people that I really want to inspire and show example of how to be, how to succeed in your career while also being human, which is really important to me, no matter the gender. And yeah, that's me.
Speaker 1:Amazing, and so it sounds like five years ago, you kind of fell into tech, and that happens to so many people, so many people in our community, happen to me as well. So what happened there? Did it does an opportunity arise? And you thought, you know what I'm going to. I'm going to go for it because there's so many great transferable skills that you can move into tech. But what happened?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. Yeah, so I was working in business news journalists for for so many years. I really loved it, and there was a lot of tech news involved as well, right, looking at tech companies and innovations more from the business point of view, right, so I wasn't totally unfamiliar with the sector and with the industry, obviously, and I was at the same company for approximately 10 years. I was on a maternity leave at that time, right, and it happens to many people, like I took that time to think about my options and career and my future, right, and essentially what happened? I wasn't even pursuing opportunities that I don't know like with passion myself, but there was this one CEO of this company, of CyberNews, right, and he was insistent and he kind of sold me on the idea that, you know, they were building this website and they need someone with experience, and also they agreed to wait for me like for half a year because I wasn't ready to come back to the market. Just then, you know, I was really kind of scared because I opened that website, which was then a blog, and it was like it was on cybersecurity. I didn't know the slang back then, right, it wasn't familiar to me, but I thought that, okay, I found someone who is actually believing, was believing in me more than I did believe in myself. So I thought I would try. You know what the worst that could have happened? Right, I thought I just I would try.
Speaker 2:I was really eager to get there, yeah, but probably what mattered here is that, you know, there was someone, you know, who saw a potential in me and who supported me, and it was a man, right. So, you know, it never happened. Yes, it is a male-dominated world. It never happened. Yes, it is a male-dominated world. But also, there are so many examples who can inspire, and it's not just women, essentially, it's just people who see people and who see fire in their eyes. And, yeah, five years later, I'm so happy that I joined, you know, which was never even a long time dream of mine. I never imagined that I could be, you know, working within the cybersecurity field. I thought, ok, maybe some. I was leaning towards science more. So I thought, ok, maybe some, um, some scientific, you know, company, that that that is working, I don't know, like, whether with lasers or like biotech, something like that. That was where I was leaning. Uh, you know too, but this opportunity arose and then I thought, okay, I, I'd give it a try.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, I'll give it a try. Yeah, I love that I'll give it a try. And somebody believes in me so I'm going to give it a try in that direction. And you're so right, I've had some brilliant male sponsors throughout the years who have kind of pushed me in certain directions that perhaps I wouldn't have thought of. They say the right things about you when you're not in the room and you end up going in a direction because somebody believes in you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's always interesting to hear how people end up in tech and their thoughts about the industry before they come into tech as well, because there is this misconception that tech is you have to be very technical and if you don't do a computer science degree when you're at university, you've kind of missed the opportunity to come into the industry, which is such a myth because some people come in at such different times and stages in their careers and usually the tech industry is calling out for people with good skills and transferable skills. But when people think of the tech industry they think, oh, I couldn't possibly do that or I couldn't possibly find a way to transfer into tech and be successful. So it's always good to hear stories like yours because it just inspires other people to think oh, actually I could go into tech and there are lots of things that I'm already doing that would transfer over quite well, and I don't have to be techie or a coder or have a PhD or one of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's for sure. Like, in the end of the day, it's still just a company, right, and there are a lot of you. You know departments where your soft skills are needed and you know, um, what it's not like. We are, let's say, a tech company and everyone just codes. There are so many things then. Yeah, you know, and it's very good, especially, uh, if you want to code one day, right, it's good to start working at the tech company where you familiarize yourself with the field, starting from, you know, product owner, product manager, organizational skills come in handy, right, and you start familiarizing yourself with the jargon, with how the company is run and all that.
Speaker 2:And you know, I've seen a lot of people transitioning, you know, from one role to another role just because, what is important? You break into the field. What is important? You break into the field, meaning you start working in a tech company in that industry, and then you just kind of, if you want, the knowledge is there. So you go out with your co-workers, you meet those people, you talk about what they actually do, you ask them to show how they do it. You know, and you see, do you really want that? Because sometimes, you know, the dream might be one thing, but when you actually start doing that it's not that exciting, right, and you might find something you know completely else very interesting.
Speaker 2:And we also had quite a few people I had a few people myself right where they thought that, okay, so now we're going to start as journalists and then, you know, maybe start coding or whatnot. They saw the journalism job also as an entry level into something more technical. But at the end of the day they got excited about just writing about that technical stuff. Because the technical stuff when you start doing that it's not for everyone, right. It requires a detailed mindset. You need, like, there's a lot of administrative work there as well. Think they can, you know, transition to coding. Then they think, oh, maybe that's really not for me, but it's so good that you know, you get a first-hand experience. Uh, yeah. So I'm not sure what was the question, but I went on and on.
Speaker 1:No, you were right.
Speaker 1:It's sometimes people start and we, and then they realize the reality of the job or and it is good to try things because sometimes there there aren't always the role models in place either to show you what those jobs could actually look like and and that can be quite a challenge to figure out what jobs are available, whether or not you would like. We always encourage our community to try free courses, free boot camps. There are some very, very expensive courses you can go on um, but you're absolutely right with what you just said. Sometimes you try it and you think actually the technical part is not for me or there are so many parts to it as well that you might be good at um and and might not be good at others. So try things for three for free and find um communities that can help you with that.
Speaker 1:As you know, here's where I got started and this was a good course and um. Don't waste your money in areas uh to to figure out actually what you think you're good at and where you would like to go on and um actually secure a job. So you're absolutely right, you, you don't um have to have that dream and then go in and think actually that wasn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, actually, that's my always my first advice, right?
Speaker 2:So find your community and find your people, no matter in you know what company and where, where that is, it's just it's people who help you start it and who believe in you and then it's easier to break into the field.
Speaker 2:But also to understand what it's all about Is it for you and to land the job right, not just to kind of blindly apply where your skills obviously don't fit just yet, right, but when you have a personal approach and then when someone can recommend you, uh, somewhere and can walk you through, help you, uh, you know, go through through the process of of, let's say, like, uh, changing careers, right. So, yeah, I think, uh, I just wanted to to second that you know the community, I community, I think, is the key here. And it's important, guys, that the job that you do as well I'm really happy you know that and ones who look they can find you know places and support that they need to do that. If they don't feel comfortable doing that on their own and they know so many people aren't, you know, as comfortable as others are, so that's really important.
Speaker 1:Yes, it can be a lonely place as well when you're going through that, so finding other people that are doing similar things really, really does help. Um, you've built a successful career in a field that is traditionally dominated by men. Um, but what are some of the biggest challenges you faced early on and how did you overcome them?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, the biggest challenge was always me. I, I think from the very beginning. You know I am not a big believer in myself. I had to learn that throughout my career. You know, I would always be the one doubting myself. I'm also quite the perfectionist. So I think you know that I don't know.
Speaker 2:I like there's always more to know, more, to learn, right, and I quite often would feel as an imposter, especially at the beginning, right, like who am I to now write about cybersecurity? And then to kind of take on other people and, you know, suggest their topics and you know, and they kept learning a lot and a lot. But then I would feel intimidated by people who knew the jargon and I didn't know it at the time. Right, yeah, but I think I did quite well and it was going on well for me. But sometimes the reality doesn't correspond to how we feel about it, right, sometimes, you know, the reality doesn't correspond to how we feel about it. Right, yeah, and I did something well, probably not unconventional, but unrelated to the career to boost my confidence. So I started, well, I got back to running and I decided to run a marathon because this seemed like something that I can't do. This seems something out of science fiction. And I thought, ok, how about I set myself a challenge that I think is impossible to do, right? And you know, well, long story short, I did it and that boosted my confidence so much, not only in sports, right, but also at work, because now it's way easier to approach challenges because, okay, something is huge and I don't think I can do it. But now I know that with the right approach and with consistency, right, we can get anywhere to where we want to be right, just need a good approach, we just need a plan, right. And that's actually how, how, uh, you know, I kind of lifted myself from that hole where I thought that, okay, I'm, I'm an imposter here, right, uh, it's fine, I just I have a certain, uh, you know, amount of experience and knowledge. It's never ending. And there's a pool, you know, where you can take and read and educate yourself more and more. And you know the industry is changing every day and you see how fast the innovation is right.
Speaker 2:And what's important here is that to understand and to have those people who are eager and who can adapt and who just want to learn on an everyday basis, because that's the way I see the field challenge, right, just feeling intimidated, and it's not the men who would do that, right, it's just, I don't know. Again, it is male-dominated, but, as I told you, it was a man who actually brought me here, believing in me. Obviously, there are some stereotypes and whatnot. I don't see that in my company, actually, because, I don't know, we're a quite young company and there are a lot of young people who don't even see genders anymore. I think this comes more from other environments in my life, but I also see quite a few examples, for example, of women who would want to please their boss, who is a man, you know, and there are a lot of like cancerous areas in our society, you know, and we need to fight that.
Speaker 2:And we are still humble as women, you know, in general, and I don't think that someone is doing anything. Well, maybe some people are, but no one is doing that to us on purpose. It's just been ingrained in our society for so many years, right, that we are afraid to ask for a raise. We feel imposter syndrome more often, right, we just feel that we don't fit, or we are like I don't know, like just biologically not, as you know, good and built for maths or physics and whatnot.
Speaker 2:But you know what I see in real life it can be quite the opposite. And even if, not, even if your brain, you know, stereotypically is not, you know, wired to do maths and physics and coding and is better at communications and soft skills and then HR and whatnot, there's still place in the tech company, right and now it's very mixed and you don't really need to be very, very hardwired to just be in the field If you really like the innovation and the field itself. What is it about? Where is it heading? So I think it has a place for everyone. And, yeah, first you need to start with yourself. You just really need to want to be there and find your people, your community.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more, because you mentioned there that intimidation feeling and I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, because you're at the intersection of cyber security and journalism, and I wanted to ask you how you approach translating complex cyber security topics into stories that resonate with a broader audience.
Speaker 1:Because you are right, there is that intimidation of of that the tech industry and having to be techie. But I've found that when I've done that and I've had to talk to people about very techie subjects and find stories, actually people want to talk about what they're doing and I've always found people very open to share what they're doing, why they're doing it. And you know, even if you're at lunch and they'll write some, they'll draw you a diagram of how their data center works on the back of a napkin or that everybody is very open to explaining these types of things to you. And that's kind of how I overcome that. I was like, well, tell me more. You know, how do you, how did you overcome that at first and just be like I'm just gonna throw myself in and start asking people about cyber security and find some good stories.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, that's definitely how I've approached that all the time, not only even in cybersecurity. That's how I started in business journalism, right, like I define the field and the topic that is interesting to me, meaning that would be interesting to more people. And the less I know about the topic, the more likely it is that there are more people and more and more people like me, right, who know next to nothing and would like to learn more. Right, and I would approach, especially at the beginning, every topic, as you know, any random person would approach. So just start asking very general questions, you know, just, and yeah, and then my approach would be like OK, so now let's try and talk about it the way we would talk about it, you know, with the relatives at, like, Christmas party, party, like, or any dinner, uh, conversation, right, you don't talk very technical stuff or specifics. If you're trying that to explain, to explain that to your uncle, right? So let's just kind of let's, uh, firstly, like, um, paint the broad picture what we're talking about here. Why is it important? Why do we talk about it? Is it because it's just you know something you do, and then I'm interested because of you are doing it, or does it, you know, affect more people, right. Just ask questions the way the public would ask them Very simple, sometimes not well-informed questions, and that would work.
Speaker 2:Obviously, it started to get a bit more difficult when we already kind of were in the waters, so obviously then you get more technical and into more specifics. But that's where the good stories lie. Also, I kind of have a thick skin by now, and journalism is such a profession where everyone knows better than you do and they think that you are whatever, stupid anyways, and that you could have asked something better. And you know, or you didn't do your research and why you are asking those stupid questions. It doesn't mean that you didn't do your research. It could mean quite the opposite. It just that means that you know how to bring that story to your reader. So, yeah, I kind of have a thick skin right now, so I don't really care, you know, about what people think about me. I don't feel an imposter anymore. I feel quite comfortable.
Speaker 2:You know, and I know that I'm writing the story to my audience, right. I'm kind of trying to figure out what they know about this, and you kind of get that they are not doing this every day. So it's fine to simplify the story to an extent where they understand you don't need to treat them as. Treat them as they are, like stupid, because sometimes they might be, might feel intimidated by your, your story, because you are using you of well hard to say, relax, because we write a lot about, you know, data breaches and all the privacy issues, but kind of open their eyes to what is happening out there and trying to explain why should you care, even if you don't? You don't really need to become an expert in privacy and security to care about that or to take action.
Speaker 2:Right, especially here in Europe. Right, it's different in the us, but here in europe everyone kind of takes their privacy, uh, very seriously, right, so we just kind of aim and no matter the means. So we, we, you know we have different genres how to tell the story, but we try, we're trying to get, uh, to the, to the user, so they could kind of find a way to secure their digital lives. So that's something that I'm worried and I think this is of growing importance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's why you know we need more people and we will need way more people in cybersecurity and tech companies, but also, you know, the other fields, because this is a growing industry, a growing topic. We are increasingly online and you know we will need more people and not people who can code, but who do understand the field and innovation and what's happening and the impact it has on our daily lives, right? So the field is just so huge. And, yes, you say that she can code, but now she doesn't even need to have to code, right, this, this field is wide open to two people who are generally interested in the field to people, uh, right who are generally interested in the field.
Speaker 1:There are so many opportunities here, exactly, and that um workforce. I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, that workforce, because, um, if that is is growing and there will be more opportunities, um, especially for diversity and inclusion in the future. I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, about what are some of the most pressing workforce challenges the cyber industry is facing right now, especially when it comes to diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's a lot of problems here, right. Yeah, obviously there's a huge skills shortage already, right, worldwide when it comes to tech and cybersecurity. At the same time, when companies declare that they need workforce and we don't have skilled people, you know, we also see a lot of candidates complaining about how difficult the whole process of landing a job is, right, and how many tasks you have to go through, or that you can't really land a job when you are a junior and when you just finished a course in university, right, and a lot of them require experience. So there's a huge mismatch here. So, probably companies haven't got to that problem yet, where they actually lack workforce, right, because if they would, I think this whole process of landing a job would get way more, way more simple, right, but at least from what I've experienced, or the yeah, the people that I've talked to in the industry as well, you know, interviewing them I don't think it is a problem these days. I don't think it matters what your gender is or who you are really. I think what matters is the attitude and the skills, obviously, but also the can-do attitude. Obviously, but also the can-do attitude, and you know, these days we are just learning on the job because, yes, you might need some basics, but a lot of, especially tech companies, they are, you know, they have the startup approach and they are like changing things constantly. So the workplace is dynamic these days.
Speaker 2:I get that this, you know, might be quite difficult for some people. It's not easy, for sure, you know, if you are, like I don't know, neurodivergent or, you know, just like me, very kind of private person or, you know, introvert person, could be hard to adapt just to that culture, right. And so I think companies also have to have that in mind, right, that, even though, like, we are very different and, you know, we bring different skill sets to work environment, we still need to kind of respect the boundaries of people and never ask them to blindly follow whatever rules are being implemented and whatever innovation we're following. A lot of companies are now jumping on the bandwagon of AI, just implementing whatever, because they don't want to miss right.
Speaker 2:And then there are like maybe not smarter people it's not fair to say but like ones who look forward, right, and they envision a future in five or 10 years and they're saying, please, let's stop, let's talk about this. You know, you need to create a safe, safe culture and workspace where you can actually voice those things and where people can speak up and say that you know they have worries about something they want to talk about that Right? I think I'm not sure about something they want to talk about that right? I think I'm not sure. Well, it depends on the company, but I'm really afraid that companies are not creating that safe environment for people to speak up and to be who they want to be and who they are right, and because so many of companies are just blindly following some tech trend because they are afraid to kind of lag behind. So it's a very dynamic work environment in the tech industry, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, and on that work environment, what about women who work in cybersecurity? Have you seen any meaningful shifts that the industry has made to support women in cybersecurity? Have you seen any meaningful shifts that the industry has made to support women in cybersecurity, and what kind of progress do you think has been made and what still needs to happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very broad question, you know, and when I started looking at the statistics, you know nothing colossal has happened recently when you look at that, right. But but at the same time, right, we see more and more initiatives and you know communities popping up and women speaking up in the public and elsewhere, like, and in the conferences, everywhere, just kind of being those inspiring examples and, you know, helping other women to come in. So, yeah, on one hand, I don't see a huge shift when it comes to, let's say, workforce, a huge shift when it comes to, let's say, workforce. I think in North America we have only like 15% of women, you know, when it comes to security jobs. So that's not a good number. Worldwide it's a little bit higher. But at the same time, right, I talk with women across the world, like in Asia and in Europe and in the Americas as well, and there are more and more examples and I just really hope that you know there are more advocates like you and me who create that safe space in every company. Right, it doesn't have to be some huge initiative space in every company, right, it doesn't have to be some huge initiative, you know, all it takes sometimes is just one person or you know one believer in you, as it happened to me, or just a few encouraging words where you can actually inspire someone. So I just hope that people are more aware of these issues. Right, and I had a few quite discouraging interviews right with other women in cybersecurity.
Speaker 2:For example, there was this woman that I interviewed in Italy and she told that when she first walked in the NATO Security Committee where she was supposed to, you know, give presentation, they just thought that, you know, she was serving them coffee, you know, but it wasn't intentional and she wasn't kind of upset about that, but it's just so ingrained, you know, in our culture again, as I said before, and it's okay to just speak up and say and kind of make everyone aware, you know, of the problem. So I think it's happening more, at least I do see, yeah, a lot of initiatives and inspiring examples, and you know, and we're doing that through communication, which is our, you know, and we're doing that for communication, which is our, you know, strong suit, I guess, and that's where women can become handy when it comes to tech and security field. Right, just first maybe come in and advocate for it and then see where it takes you, you know, maybe it takes you to coding and elsewhere, or maybe it's just uh, you know communications or something similar.
Speaker 1:Is is, uh is a good thing yes, I know, um, you are right, it is. Uh, I was at a show where, um, I was on the show floor and it was kind of a bit later in the afternoon and the beers were starting to come out and I was turned to and this guy just started ordering beer for his thing. And I'm not a waitress. I know the beers are starting to come out, but I'm not a waitress. And it is that I think it's happened to a lot of us, where people will call it out and then once people know and they're like oh, actually you know, there are ladies here for other things other than um, serving coffee and drinks, but it has happened to quite a few of us. Uh, and, and I don't want to say like it's, it is one of those things, it's not, but the more it happens, the more people become aware of that.
Speaker 1:Um, and when I was in the states once, I was at a tech conference, I did notice there were a lot more women there and it was quite strange because in Europe, sort of 15 years ago, say, you didn't get a lot of ladies at the tech conferences. But when I went to the States, there was a huge queue for the toilets and I was like, wow, look at all these women in the queue for the toilets. You don't get that in Europe. So it was kind of strange that you didn't really see that in Europe quite a few years ago. But it is starting to change. But it is thankfully it is starting to change, but we still have a long way to go. I think we've all had those stories of something that's happened to us at a tech conference. But on that note, is there any advice that you would give to women or underrepresented individuals who are looking to enter or grow in the cybersecurity field?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my one advice probably would be maybe, you know, be the advocate for yourself first, right? No one's going to do anything for you. No one's going to get you where you want to be. You still have to be willing to feel, maybe a little bit uncomfortable, to speak up your truth, right? Yes, we are in that position where we are misrepresented, but, at the same time, this is a very huge opportunity, right? You know this is well. Everything is changing and they think that we need to take that opportunity. No one is giving you and bringing you anything on a silver platter, right? So, first, if you want to be out there, you need to start going out there, no matter how scared you are, right? So find your I don't know support group. Whether that's in the field or not, maybe it's just your friends who would encourage you, right? And then, at some point, you will understand that you actually need to be that example that you want to, uh, to find in the, in other people, right? This is just. I think it's.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's because I have a daughter and I just have to do some things for other people, even though, like some stereotypes don't really bother me or I don't feel offended, you know, I just don't want to waste the energy on fighting some of them. But then, you know, I kind of know I need to set an example for her, right, so that she knows that she can question authorities and stereotypes and she doesn't have to take things at face value. So I do that for her, and sometimes, you know, when breaking into the field, essentially. But from then on I had to still prove myself, you know, and to set an example for others, and I hope I keep doing that for at least for some people, at least for my little one, right, that's quite enough. Some people, at least for my little one, right, that's quite enough.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you kind of have to step into that uncomfortable zone and push yourself a little bit and maybe again basing this on my case but maybe set yourself a challenge that you don't think you're capable of, you know doing, and then it's just going to be so worth it in the end because you need to boost your own confidence. No one will ever do that for you, so don't rely on other people too much. They're good for support and for community, but you're still going to need to do that yourself, right? There's no easy way to do this and you know we see a lot of success stories, but we also know that what hardships those women and other people went through right To get there. It's not easy. You just need to learn how to deal with those challenges, how to be okay with yourself, how to be okay with yourself, how to be okay with feeling uncomfortable and challenged at times, right yeah, it's such a good idea to set a challenge that you think is impossible and then work through it to to boost your confidence.
Speaker 1:Um, I mean, that's for gender and women in tech. But what about trends in cybersecurity? So, looking ahead at trends in cybersecurity, what technical or regulatory or cultural trends do you think will define the next five years?
Speaker 2:Oh boy, there's so so much happening there right now, with you know, uh, ai obviously being the the catalyst for everything, for hacking as well, uh, for the change of the job market. Right, we need to become more agile and more flexible, you know, because so many things are changing and, yeah, you need to understand and you need to find the skill or your characteristic that is. You know, that won't be replaced by AI, so you need to be more creative and that's where we're good at right. So that's good. But anyway, the lines are being blurred because, again, because of just how good the technology is becoming and how some of the knowledge that you would get at the university I don't know, like 20 years ago, and you could use that for at least 10 years uh, at least the basics of it. Now everything is changing and you know people are. Some people are still coding and they, they know the code, but others resort to wipe coding and then, you know, they make careers faster just because they know how to kind of circumvent some something, or they know how to write the prompt right, so it's a race. Who gets there first?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of, actually a lot of needs still needs to change in the job market, because we see some people who are, let's say, let down by the system, or they study a lot and then they go through the hardships to land the job and when they do, they still earn next to nothing, right, and they have to repay their loans and whatnot. So then we see them kind of resorting to the dark side, because now it's so easy to become a cyber criminal these days. All the tools are off the shelf and you don't even need that much knowledge to I don't know to start scamming or to defrauding people, right, and we don't want to lose especially young minds to the dark side as well. So we need to also celebrate those people more and make it easier for them to land at least an entry job level, so then they can move on from there. So I think we will see a lot of changes in the job market.
Speaker 2:Not in strictly like AI stealing our job. That's not going to happen, right, but it's a wild, wild west there. So, yeah, that's going to be not defining, but yeah, also there's, like quantum computing, ages dawning and we see the advancements right in that area, which also means that now we have to work faster on on cryptography to secure our systems. And again it's both an opportunity and then the challenge, for not only tech companies, for essentially every tech, every company out there who has at least some presence online or or or deals, deals with data. A lot, lot of it's changing.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's the fun thing, but also the challenge about being in the tech industry is constantly moving and it's finding what works for you and then being able to keep up as well. But there is always an opportunity within the tech industry to learn and change jobs and try something new, so that is the good thing that can be a challenge about working in tech. But, yogita, we are already out of time. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today, so thank you so much for coming on and having a chat with us.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for having me, thank you, and to everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
