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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
A conversation with Tara Chklovski, CEO, Technovation
Join us as we sit down with Tara Chklovski, CEO of Technovation, one of the world's leading tech incubators. In a landscape dominated by white male entrepreneurs, Tara is paving the way for diversity and inclusion in STEM.
With her background as a former aerospace engineer, Tara founded Technovation to empower girls worldwide through technology education. Her initiative has impacted over 400,000 girls, with an impressive 76% of alumnae pursuing STEM degrees.
Featured prominently in the documentary "CodeGirl" and a speaker at prestigious venues like SXSW and the UN, Tara brings a wealth of experience as a startup founder and educator. Tune in to discover how Tara and Technovation are challenging the status quo, breaking barriers, and inspiring the next generation of female tech leaders.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Bateman, the Managing Director at she Can Code, and today we're having a conversation with Tara Czajkowski, ceo of Technovation, one of the world's leading tech incubators. In a landscape dominated by white male entrepreneurs, tara is paving the way for diversity and inclusion in STEM, and we're lucky enough to have her with us today to share a little bit about her journey and experiences so far. Welcome, tara. Thank you so much for joining us on Spilling the Tea.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, kayleigh. Yeah, super excited to get to connect with your audience and with you.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you. Well, we know you're a very busy lady and we would love to pick your brains a little bit about your journey and we'd love to kick off with a bit about you, if that's okay. A bit of background about you and how you ended up in tech and what you're aware, how you ended up founding Technovation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started Technovation almost 20 years ago and my background is I was doing a PhD in aerospace engineering and wanted to work at this really cool company that was making like the first electric vehicle, the first solo powered airplane, and and they were the first organization to to actually make drones. And I was working on that and I just felt that I didn't want to innovate and problem solve for war, and that's where a lot of the innovation was being put into. Innovation was being put into, and I really wanted to be on the other side of building, creating rather than using it for other purposes, and so that was quite a fundamental career shift for me, and so it really was like starting from scratch, looking at what are some big problems in the world and how you can actually solve them. And technology is just such a huge enabler, and the insight was not just that we need to increase access, but it's really about a change in mindset, and so that's what an education is is such a powerful way to change mindsets, because it's building for the future, it's um, it's believing in people's potential, because that's why you're learning something. You're learning for the future, um, and so, so, yeah, so we were on a long journey to try to figure out how do you really change people's mindsets to become innovators and problem solvers, and over the years, we experimented and this is the model that we really came up with where which is the Technovation model, which it is like a three-month accelerator where girls work in teams, they find problems in their communities and they work with mentors, and we were one of the first organizations to help girls build mobile apps. So we launched the first mobile app coding program two years after the first iPhone came out.
Speaker 2:The iPhone came out in 2007. We launched our mobile app program in 2009. And then we started our AI entrepreneurship program in 2016, 17, almost nine years ago, and so coming to this space of sort of the AI revolution, with a lot of experience and now really feeling very, very strongly that women need to be such a part of this revolution, and women are the largest group that's most at risk of being left behind, and that's why I'm excited to be on this podcast and to kind of share some of the stories and the insights. But that's what Technovation is about. It's about empowering a different group of innovators amazing, and your your own journey as well.
Speaker 1:Did you, did you fall into tech? Were you encouraged as a? As a young woman? Did somebody encourage you, perhaps mentors or a teacher, or was that just something that you kind of stumbled upon?
Speaker 2:oh, not at all right. I think I grew up in India and I'm just lucky that my parents did not sort of limit my potential, and I think some of it is the mother. The females in my family are the strong bread winners, which is very unusual. It's very unusual for India, it's very unusual for even the US or even highly affluent countries today, which is it's not the norm, right. And so I think I had these very, very powerful role models in my life.
Speaker 2:My grandmother started the school at the age of 60, I think, and that school is still running today. And my mother she was trained as a doctor had to step away when she had children and she joined the army at the age of 43 as an army doctor. And she joined the army at the age of 43 as an army doctor and then took over the school later on, and she's still working at the age of 77. And so very, very strong role models that show you can change career paths at any age, and sometimes the ages are around your 40s and 50s, when your children are older, they don't need you as much and you can actually focus on your own skills. Who are you? What is your sense of purpose, right, so having that.
Speaker 2:But then definitely my father, because he always he was a pilot in the Indian Air Force and he, from the start, really helped me work with my hands and work with engines, be very technical, keep asking questions and realize, like, like, this is not something to be afraid of, right, like technical things, mechanical things are, you can take them apart, you can learn from others, you can put it back together. You have to be organized, systematic and it's a problem to be solved, and so that mindset of like you can solve this. It's not a black box. It was such a important insight and I think when I came to the US, I was just very, very surprised that women are not don't have that kind of perspective, because social norms um bin you into a certain track of caregiving and, um, you can do both yes, definitely, and I love the way that um you you described as well, um, what happens at technovation and bringing ladies together with mentors and um themes and projects and challenges.
Speaker 1:And we do that on a very small scale at she Can Code, because we run hackathons and they're only a day long. But it's when you bring ladies together with a theme and a challenge, with some people to help you, the magic that happens. It just really surprises us at the end of the day as to what comes out of that and and it's creating that environment for them that they don't feel intimidated, even that you don't have to really know what you're doing, you don't have to think, oh gosh, like the word hackathon frightens people and you know, just come along and learn something, make some new friends and feel like you worked on a project. But it takes quite a bit to create that environment to make people feel like they even want to come along. Actually, do you have that problem at Technovation where women can be a bit like or maybe that isn't for me, because I don't know all of the technical skills and actually they just need to come along and give something a try?
Speaker 2:absolutely right and I think, um, this is where you need that friend, or a teacher, um and um and I think interest is such a broad term that's used um, all over the um, all the time. But you can break it down into um, different parts and different depths of interest, and um and and. So in the early stages most people, especially girls, don't typically think of these areas as their areas that they would be good at or this would be something interesting. But to me interest is kind of a dangerous term, because we are usually interested in things we know we'll be successful in. We are not interested in things where there may be a high chance of failure, because nobody wants to look stupid right. And so you can decrease the risk of failure by bringing a friend along who says I'm here to support you. Nothing can go wrong.
Speaker 2:This is a very safe space, and so usually people will join and do something new if a friend invites them to do that, or a teacher or mentor invites them and says you will be good at that. And so this is the first part of interest, where it's called situational interest, where you will join something because it happened to be convenient, a friend was going along. You had an evening free, you went and you checked it out. It was interesting, it was kind of you had fun. But if it happens a second time, you may not sign up again. So just because you went one time doesn't mean that you'll go the second time. And so this is again where you need that friend to stick with you.
Speaker 2:And so that's why with Technovation, we have a team and we have a mentor and we set up that infrastructure at first and it takes quite a bit of effort and that's kind of hard to scale at global scale because it's people driven, not like an online thing that you sign up for.
Speaker 2:Because that's why the online programs don't work for novices, people who are new to the space, novices, people who are new to the space.
Speaker 2:And so then you need that friend or the mentor or the team to support you for a couple of weeks before it becomes a little bit more like the interest becomes a little bit deeper, because you've tackled some problems, you've become successful and you want to come back, because now you see sort of the early parts of success and it's very much like a video game, right, and so now it's becoming a little bit deeper into the part like you may go online, you may start to find some problems or Google your questions and get some debugging help, and this is where it becomes to after a couple of months of this.
Speaker 2:This is when it becomes to become some part of your identity, where you're like, oh, that's cool, and you may actually further that by signing up for things yourself, and so even then, like you need your support system and your support ecosystem and that's a very big part of what Technovation tries to provide where it's not just that one off experience but you're connected to a whole network of mentors and peers and alumna and learning opportunities that stack on top of one another yes, I love that idea and you're so right it's you might try something.
Speaker 1:You think, well, that was okay or I was okay at that. But to actually commit to something and to to commit to a career in that area takes so much learning as well and discipline. So to have a support network, that's kind of saying you know you're more than good, like you should keep. You should keep going and you should really pursue that. Um, that makes so much sense. And yourself, uh, you were in um the aerospace engineering industry. What inspired you to leave that and start Technovation? What kind of sparked that idea off originally?
Speaker 2:I think, as I was mentioning before, getting to work at this company that I really wanted to work at and kind of seeing that the applications were primarily in warfare and this was not what I had intended when I was a young kid, and so the real world is sometimes different from what you imagine and I think at that time there weren't that many options to launch your own aerospace startup company. It's different now and so I think that's primarily it. I didn't want to build things that would hurt others.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, definitely a good time to think how can I um start something up. It's quite um uh, we always talk to, we talk to a lot of entrepreneurs um on this podcast, and it's quite a thought to think I'm gonna launch something and I'm gonna be a success um at this and the challenges that you have to go through to to get things to work. Um, we, we love chatting with ladies like yourselves that have launched things and stuck at them as well, for for 20 years um, but Technovation, it's reached over 400,000 goals worldwide.
Speaker 1:Um, what do you think has made the program so successful and scalable and are there any key strategies? I mean, you mentioned a little bit then about you basically provide a support system. It's not just an online event that you come to and you just do a one-off and hope that people continue to keep training and go into a career. You provide a whole support system into a career. You provide a whole support system. Do you think that has really been behind your success or is that kind of? Is that something that you kind of evolved into as you went along and kind of something that dawned on you that actually we're going to need a whole ecosystem and support system for this?
Speaker 2:I think it was very much like looking at when I was trying out different models is looking at the research and seeing what are the elements that we know work and then building them out very intentionally. And so I think the first step is look around and see what is the research not just your competitors, but what is the research telling you and then to actually build that out and not be afraid of building something that's comprehensive, because when you're solving complex social problems, it'll require a complex, multilayered solution. It's not just a pet food app, you know, even though a pet food app is pretty complex because you have logistics and delivery and all of that. So I think being ready for if you're trying to solve big problems, being ready for the work it takes, um, and that it's not something you're going to solve in three years or five years or 10 years even, um, and so I think that's something to really ask yourself is this the right problem that you want to solve, um? And if it has all, it has all the elements of being a big problem that's going to help a lot of people, and that then you have to build a system for yourself that will motivate you and keep you going for a very long time, because most entrepreneurs give up.
Speaker 2:The reason why they fail is, I mean, starting a company is hard, but they've picked the wrong problem, and so either a competitor moved faster or a bigger organization had a much better solution. And so the second thing is you have to keep innovating, and that people have a hard time with, because you're not really taught how to do that, and I think I've taught that myself, but it's not that difficult. You just have to really study quite a bit and intentionally look ahead, and that means that you have to be comfortable with risk, and many times founders don't want to do the hard work of doing that, and, and so if you're not looking ahead, you become irrelevant, and so over such a long period of time, especially in the tech field, the tech will outpace you if you don't stay relevant. So I think looking ahead and being very intentionally innovative is, I would think, the most important thing.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and finding a workforce as well that is also willing to go on that journey with you. Absolutely. Yeah, lots of founders have said that that sometimes the idea of being in a startup sounds wonderful and then people can get in that environment and think that isn't really for me. We change so much, you have to be very agile, you have to keep learning and then you kind of come out of that startup feeling but you never really lose that. Some companies are very good at never really losing that, um, feeling of of change and innovation and and and being a company where it's exciting that it changes so much as well. But it does take a certain workforce and a certain team to be around you to be successful.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the harder problems for sure, because I think those are the two conflicting values that make us human right. Like we want, want stimulation, we want self-direction, we want agency and autonomy, but on the other side we also want stability and safety and security and comfort. So we want both of them, um and in the right amounts, and that's why it's almost impossible yes, yeah, yeah, it's always a challenge.
Speaker 1:it's a fun challenge, um, but you are right, that is why so many founders um don't stick it out as well, and definitely not as long as you have Many of your alumni. They go on to pursue STEM degrees. What do you think Technovation provides that traditional education systems often miss?
Speaker 2:systems often miss. I think it's that mindset, honestly, where you're opening up a new space that they had never thought that this was theirs, and it's just about that confidence of. I mean, how many people have, in the course of three months, built a technological solution that helps people right, like, actually helps people? So having um haven't gone through that experience at a young age. Then you only go up from there and you pick harder and harder problems, um, and already your starting point was so impressive that your life just goes on a completely different trajectory and so so, yeah, so we are the only global program that has this kind of longitudinal data, um, and the largest um talent network. Now, of these incredible young women who've gone through this um almost like a crucible right um, and come out at the other end um brave, with big ideas and a desire to make change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and would have picked up so many soft skills along the way as well, like, not just the technical skills, but the skills they would have picked up, like you said just, come out the other end more confident and brave. They would have picked up so many soft skills as well, on like how to communicate and presentations and all of those things that you know a lot of people don't always value as much as the technical skills, but they must come out. Even our small hackathons Sometimes our last host they said to us you know what the ladies? The difference from when they arrived in the morning to when they left in the afternoon is so different.
Speaker 2:So going through a three month program, they must be completely different people at the end of that yeah, absolutely, and you know I don't like the term soft skills because it sort of devalues them, right it does, yeah, um, and, and so I I mean, honestly, like the world's leaders have these soft skills in spades, right so?
Speaker 2:but you don't call them soft skills when you're thinking about the world's presidents, right so I think that you call them leadership traits, or very, he's a strong leader, right so? I think, like these are very, very core leadership traits, because you're convincing each other, you're convincing somebody else to your viewpoint and to join what you're building and doing. So I think they, definitely these young women come out with that kind of mindset that they can make the change, but they can also lead others.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that leadership traits but they can also lead others.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. Leadership traits, definitely. I agree that soft skills are very undervalued and it is sometimes because we refer to them as soft skills but most companies that's what they're looking for. They're not just looking for the technical skills when they are hiring. Definitely, if they're looking for ladies to move into leadership roles as well. Um, in a tech landscape still dominated by a fairly homogenous group, what are some systemic changes you believe are necessary to level the playing field? That's a loaded question.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, many answers I think I think it comes down to mindset and social norms, and I think it comes down to um having some of these conversations where um at all levels, right um at home, in the workplace, um in society, and and I think it starts with both genders. I mean, I think social norms have such tightly stereotyped rules for both genders that doesn't suit any. It doesn't. I think the anti-DEI movement and all of that kind of stuff is forcing're just missing out on human potential if you subscribe to these social norms that are in some sense not keeping up with the technological change. Right Like. So, for instance, ai tools just completely change what a person can do or not do today, and so it's more of an economic argument, if anything, where don't wait for anybody to invite you to do this, right Like, if you see a problem, if you have an idea, go build.
Speaker 2:And today it's just so easy to code with Claude, and on my LinkedIn I did a little post about how do you pick a problem. That is a good problem to code using Claude, because not every problem is a good problem if you don't know how to code, if you don't know how to start and it has to be simple it has't know how to start, and it can be. It has to be simple, it has to be connected to like a few people, it can be very finite, so there are different parameters on that, but that's how you get started and you only need English right and you go back and forth and that's an amazing and you can keep asking it. Teach me what you're doing now. Teach me what you're doing now.
Speaker 2:And I would say this is my biggest message to women now that don't be afraid. Like it's never been easier to build things and to launch things, and I would have to pay 20, $30,000 to get some of these things done. Now that I can do with these incredibly powerful tools, but at the end of the day, I still need that mindset of that I can make the change. I don't need to wait for anybody, and I think that, as we start to do that, I really want to send this message that women need to step into the AI space and own it and then, in parallel, I think educational organizations like us need to be bridging the gaps between genders and groups and, yeah, helping kind of change the way innovation is shaped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, I think I love that. Don't wait for an invite. I think that's what our community really needs to hear, because some of them they ask us a lot, especially on our live events, the Q&A that, um that we have. The questions are always is it too late? Do I not have enough skills? How do I get started? There is always that I'm not really sure if if I can do this or if it's, you know, going to be for me, but a lot of it is just that get started. Things are easier now, thanks to tools like that, than they ever were. So you know what? What have you got to lose? Um, really to to give something a try, and sometimes it's taking that first step, um, and and finding, um, you know, uh, programs like Technovation to to help you through that as well, um, so you're not on your own and you don't have to uh try and navigate that on your own, because there is so much that you can choose from.
Speaker 1:Some of our questions are usually where do I get started? Because there are a lot of resources out there. You have been featured by Code Girl. You've spoken at SXSW and the UN. What moments have stood out most for you on this journey and why?
Speaker 2:I think whenever I meet alumna in these events yesterday I think I was at a tech startup conference and I was on a panel and at the end of the panel, these young women come up to me and say I went through Technovation and now I am doing my master's in education technology at Stanford and I was like wow, that is just so cool. So wherever I go, I see these young women that come up to me and they say Technovation changed my life and I think that's just incredible to me and that's when I feel the most proud, yeah, yeah, when they actually tell you where they've gone and what they're doing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean you spoke at the UN like that's incredible. There must be so many moments within your journey that really stand out. I suppose as well some of the, I suppose are there any challenges that stand out for you as well along the way, especially along the way as an entrepreneur, there been any really standout moments where you've kind of thought gosh this. It really does take a lot to to launch a business and make it a success.
Speaker 2:I think COVID was that um and, and I think um because we lost um half of our funders. Um the transitions to girls. Education is usually not like the top priority in funding and so that was hard, and I think these past few months have not been easy navigating sort of changes in the US administration, global network of support that we've built and the evidence that that this model is working and is helping young women find extremely powerful careers in technology and leadership positions. I think that's what keeps us going as a team to like you gotta keep fighting, but but yeah, I think these past few months have been some of the most challenging um, but I also see this as a way to kind of reflect on, I think, the conversations around bringing more women into tech. We've definitely been a very active part, played a very active part in that, but I think that sometimes it can have an alienating message for men as well.
Speaker 2:And so many of the mentors in our program, so our program is successful only because we have mentors who provide such support to the girls. They put in anywhere between 60 to 100 hours volunteer effort. Half of them are men, right, and so I think that it's unfair to just have this kind of monolithic view of the genders. It doesn't. We're not all alike Right, like and and, and I think that education is at the heart of this, where you learn to understand the other person's point of view, be more empathetic, and I think that's that's where I think we, as an educational organization, need to step into a bit more, um and try to understand, like well, how do we make build these bridges, um, because just saying it's only us, uh versus them, it's not a zero-sum kind of approach, because that kind of viewpoint is not, has not, is not paying off yes, you know what?
Speaker 1:we've noticed something similar with that as well that a lot, lot of our volunteers and mentors, for instance in our program, they are men, and we get messages a lot from guys who say is it OK for me to join this? Like, will anybody kind of point out that I'm male? We go no, no, no. Actually, if you look in our community, there are lots of guys that volunteer and help our mission. Um, so don't think you're the only one, because actually we have noticed something similar lots of men want to put in hours to help, um, especially at our events. They want to help. They are speakers on our live events as well.
Speaker 1:Um, and, yeah, we, we have noticed the same thing. But it's almost like they have that moment where they think, well, I really should ask whether or not I can be part of this. I'm like, absolutely, because you're right, it can't be this gender against that gender or that they are completely separate. But that's a coincidence that you mentioned that, because we have definitely seen that as well. I've definitely seen that as well. You've already shared some brilliant advice on here already, but what advice would you give to women and girls who are just starting out in tech or considering launching their own ventures. Anything you wish someone had told you.
Speaker 2:I just think like, don't hesitate. I don't work for any of these companies, but I would say, spring for the subscription. It's a very, very small fee for the amount of support and resources you have. And subscribe to these gen ai tools and not just one, get to a whole bunch and just start building, not just like, just start building actual tech products because, um, it's, it's the best way to learn is hands-on and to actually dive in. But also it's an incredible coach for entrepreneurship. And we encourage all the Technovation girls to go use these tools to help figure out what are innovative solutions to some of the big problems and just go back and forth, back and forth and become like power users of these tools, because it's going to unlock your potential.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and I think that's what you guys are there for to unlock that potential and for people to actually realize that, what they're really good at, and to bring them together in a supportive environment where they can actually think you know what actually I could really go on and do a career in this, because not everybody is that lucky that at school there is a teacher that inspires them, or they might have a family member. We have a lot of community members actually who are retraining to go into tech or they retrained a few years ago to go into tech because when they were in lockdown they noticed that their software engineering husbands had really good jobs and they said you know what? Actually I noticed that they can work flexibly and what they were doing seemed really interesting. And there were lots of ladies after COVID who said it was that the penny dropped, that those roles were there, and they hadn't even considered those roles for themselves. So sometimes, like technovation sometimes can just almost just open you to that world of like, these roles are available, you could be really good at that, just give it a try.
Speaker 1:And because sometimes if you don't see that at school, um, then you're not even going to know that it's. It's an option, are you absolutely? Um, I could keep picking your brain on this, uh, for a long time, um, because we align so much on so many things as well, and our mission, um, but it, we are already out of time. So it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you, tara. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, kelly, and I hope this was useful to your listeners.
Speaker 1:Yes, our community are going to be very inspired by it and we're going to share all the links below as well how to learn more about Technovation and get in touch with you as well, because our community are going to absolutely love this episode. So, thank you so much and for everybody listening, as always, thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
