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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
From Insurance Claims to Product Management: Navigating a varied career journey with resilience
Join us in this episode as we dive into the inspiring career journey of Sue Hitchmough, Product Manager, at Mercator Digital a seasoned Product Manager with a diverse background spanning from handling insurance claims to leading product innovation.
Despite facing challenges, including overcoming a brain tumour diagnosis, Sue shares valuable insights on resilience, navigating male-dominated industries, and leveraging life experiences to excel in professional roles.
Whether you're aiming to transition careers or seeking to enhance your leadership skills, this episode offers practical advice and empowering stories to motivate and guide you on your own path to success.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Bateman, the Managing Director Community and Partnerships at she Can Code, and today we are discussing from insurance claims to product management navigating a varied career journey with resilience. I've got the wonderful Sue Hitchmo from Mercator Digital with me today. She is a seasoned product manager with a diverse background spanning from handling insurance claims to leading product innovations. She's got an incredible and inspiring journey of strength and resilience and I'm very excited to delve into that with her today. Welcome, sue. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Well, we'd love to set the scene with a little bit about you, if that's okay, a little overview of who you are and where you come from and how you ended up in tech and at Mercator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not a problem. So yeah, you've introduced me there. I'm Sue Hitchmer and I'm based down in Hampshire, in Southampton. I've got two boys that are now older and be married for nearly 20 years and, yeah, life's had its ups and downs for me, most definitely, and you know I've certainly been through different careers, but I think they're all I'll go through it, but they're all intertwined. All intertwined as as to, you know, to get to where I am within Mercatus Digital as a product manager, but I've been here for nearly two years now, nice.
Speaker 1:And we love it when people say different careers intertwined. Everybody has that squiggly route into tech and through tech and we love to hear about that, that you don't have to have the traditional. I graduated with a computer science degree and I knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life when I was a teenager kind of thing. Out of curiosity. What did you want to be when you were younger? Did you know you were going to end up in tech? Or is this a total surprise for you?
Speaker 2:Total surprise. So when I was at school, I was like I'm going to go and be a school teacher or I'm going to go and be a nanny. That's what I had my sights set on. But then things change. You know, I think it's one of those things that you grow up, you get older, your experiences change and you just have different paths in your life. And that's not to say that any one of them is wrong, it's just to say that you get to a crossroads and then you decide which way you want to go. So I think I I fell into IT. It certainly wasn't something that, uh, you know, I was uh focused on all through, uh, through my school and my college. Um, I definitely fell into it, but I've I'm enjoying it, enjoying it since I've been doing it yes, and there are so many people like you who say I fell into tech which?
Speaker 1:the tech industry is very lucky that a lot of people fall into it. I mean, I think a lot of us as well. We don't tend to have those role models along the way either, where you sort of think, actually I'd love to go into tech. They're not, they're not visible anyway, until you kind of reach exactly work, you might see someone in another department or company doing it and then think, oh, actually that might be good for me exactly yeah, and I think that that's really key.
Speaker 2:You know, because it's one of those things that I started doing a job and then I got interested in another role within that department. I was like, oh, actually, I want to learn more about that. And then I saw another role that I was like, yeah, I want to learn more about that, and and that's absolutely fine. You know, you, they're all stepping stones, um, as to where we want to get to. Even if, if we have that, I want to be a CTO or a CEO, you still need to take stepping stones to get there yes, exactly, which is different for all of us, and sometimes we do have to take steps sideways as well, and that is okay, as well, absolutely depends where, where your career takes you, and the different seasons throughout your life as well, and what works for you, those different points, um, but your career journey, it's been anything but linear, um.
Speaker 1:So, starting in insurance claims and progressing all the way to product manager at Mercator. Looking back, what experience or roles do you think shaped you the most?
Speaker 2:oh, good question. I think it's very true. I've not followed a structured path. It's certainly not been linear at all.
Speaker 2:As you said, I've had quite a few varied roles, but I think all of them have shaped me in and had an effect on me in one way, one form or another. To be honest, you know, starting in insurance, I was having direct interaction with customers that and they were in stressful situations, you know so, but it was the claims that I worked in. So they were they'd either just had an accident or somebody had bumped into them or something had happened where I had to learn how to deal with an upset person on the phone, calm them down, be able to provide them with a quick solution so that they weren't left at the side of the road, for example. So I think that certainly helped to build strong skills in active listening, which is definitely one thing that has helped me to progress. I could understand what the customer needed there and then, even if the customer didn't understand it themselves, and I could empathise with that individual as to the situation that they were in, assess the situation, prioritise what they needed and find a solution for them really quickly. You know couldn't take hours, it had to be very quick. I think, then making that transformation from you know a person that's behind the computer desk and just using the software to actually help him to design the software.
Speaker 2:When I became a business analyst, completely chalk and cheese. But from being an insurance claims handler I was able to understand the pitfalls of software. I could understand how it needed to work more effectively, more efficiently, both from a customer point of view but also from the user's point of view in the call center. So that experience then really helped me to progress as a business analyst and translate what the say joe blogs person needed into a technical requirement so the developers could build it. And I'm hands up, I'm not a technical person at all, don't claim to be um. That's why we have developers that are really good but being able to go right. What is it that the technical people need to understand? You know, this is how we want to make it quicker. What do the technical people need to know to go? That's how we can make it quicker, if you understand. And that really helped me to go up into a product management role, because that's key.
Speaker 2:From being a business analyst I was exposed to the software development cycle. I could then start to understand it. Not be an expert in it because that's why we have experts in their field but understand what that role does. And I think that that has really shaped me to where I am, because understanding the wider picture, understanding what those roles do and what they need, for me as a business analyst, for me as a business analyst, as a product manager, means that I can make sure that I deliver it to a good quality and standard of what they want. So you suddenly see the bigger picture, as opposed to just going like this, is the one thing that I'm focusing on, and I think that's really key and that's certainly helped me, along with making sure as a project manager, I was organised.
Speaker 2:I was able to prioritise workloads for my team, including the development team, articulating to the team and the customer what the end goal was and how we were going to get there.
Speaker 2:I think that was how everything has, kind of it's like a snowball effect you start with a bit of snow and then you keep rolling it and rolling it and building on that knowledge and experience, that then you get to that building the snowman, so to speak.
Speaker 2:I think when I became a general manager, then I was able to piece together all the puzzles, all the jigsaw puzzle bits.
Speaker 2:I was able to then understand you, what the CEO would want at that level of understanding, what the technical people need, what the marketing person and the salesperson, and how it all came together. I didn't need to understand the actual job that they do, as in how they do it, the actual job that they do as in how they do it, but I needed to understand why we needed that role, what they needed for me, um, and that I think combining everything together has really helped to provide me with, or to build a strong foundation of empathy, problem solving, process thinking and, most of all, communication. You know, being able to understand what the CEO, how to communicate with the CEO, how to communicate with the developer, how to communicate with the stakeholders they're all different. The developer, how to communicate with the stakeholders they're all different and I think you know, having all of these roles together, that that's what's helped build the, the solid foundation that I've needed to then go into a product manager yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love everything you do. So because a lot of our community wonder how can they transition into tech if they haven't got any experience from other techie roles or it's their first time in the tech industry. And what you just said there was it's figuring out your story, what you're good at, what you don't want to do and just going with the things that you're really good at, because you you working with the public and especially working.
Speaker 1:Working with the public is hard anyway, but working with the public when emotions are running higher in a position that you were will really make you of how you're going to deal with pressure and deal with people and then take that to your next job.
Speaker 1:And it's just realizing that you're not starting in tech with you know, just starting from ground zero. You're starting with loads of other really important soft skills that you've learned along the way and how to move those along along your career and even when you get to that management point, you're right, it's that how do I manage upwards is one thing, and how do I manage a team as well. And also realizing and something I've noticed as well you have that thought of everybody expects me to know everything and actually you don't have to because, like you said, you've got your developers, you've got the people that know what they're doing. You don't have to do that. Like you said, you've got your developers, you've got the people that know what they're doing. You don't have to do that. But you have to have people that know what they're doing and you almost have to take a step back and say this is what I'm good at, this is what that person is good at, and that's it. You do you and I'll learn to manage and that's it Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's such a learning curve sometimes yeah, you don't, you don't have to go, I need to know everything, because nobody knows everything. But what makes a team that? Certainly from a product manager point of view. You know the the team that I work with. It's like we are all building something. None of us are experts in everything, but we are experts in our own individual area.
Speaker 2:And it's like a wheel. If you were to take a cog out of a wheel, that wheel would start to limp and eventually break, so but if you put that cog back in, the wheel keeps turning and it keeps going and and it would go on for miles. And that's the thing with with the product management it's understanding that if one particular area doesn't know what's going on, that cog's broken and then the whole thing fall down. So you need to to make sure that you can understand why people are doing something, what they need from you, and that you give them the best whether that's information, whether that's just a really good foundation to then start to build on those skills that certainly, as a product manager, I needed.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and that would have really made you for your next role. And the next role is just almost stepping back sometimes and thinking actually, almost stepping back sometimes and thinking actually all of these different things that I've done have actually helped my my route and really shaped me along the way, even if you don't always realize at the time yeah, absolutely, and I think it's.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're doing a role and you've done it for a while it could be months, could be years, whatever and you go. Actually I quite like what that role's doing, I want to go and investigate that role. That that is a good way to to progress because you're learning and you know then that you've got skills for that role that you want to go to progress into and you can start to build on it. And so it's uh, it's trying to understand that you, you don't need to know everything 100 before you go into that role.
Speaker 1:Um, you can just learn about it yes, as long as you're that sponge that's ready to to soak up anything that an employer throws at you. Um, definitely, and you've worked in lots of different types of environments as well, so you've worked in startups and large corporates. What have you learned about adapting your approach to product and people in such different sized environments that it takes a certain person to work in a startup. What have you learned along the way?
Speaker 2:that's a very different startup to corporate I think and it does take a particular person just to work in startups and then to be able to transition to a larger, larger company um, and it's offered me a really fascinating contrast of how people interact and how services or products are built. And I think, no matter whether you work in a startup or a large organization, in both environments it's highlighted that you need to be able to adapt really quickly and you need to be able to adapt to different cultures, to different processes and the ways, the different ways in which people like you to to communicate. You know, for example, when I was working in startups, you know, I learned to embrace the why. You know, why are we doing something? What's the vision, what's the overall vision of that company? You know, and I would sit around a table with a CEO and a CTO and a designer and we were all on an equal level. You know, yes, the CEO got paid, but he also had a lot more responsibility than I did, but we were all on an equal level.
Speaker 2:From a startup, you understand the core mission and you come back to this all the time to go right. Are we achieving what our mission statement is? Are we achieving how we're going to solve the problem that we set out to do and you're not getting sidetracked. Also, the acceptance of doing something really quickly, even if it's not 100 percent, is probably better in a startup than a large company. You know you need to.
Speaker 2:As a startup, you need to get something out on the market quickly. You need to make that, that impact, so that people are aware of you. And also, startups don't have huge budgets. So you know I was wearing many hats I was user research, I was data analyst, I was marketing, I was a business analyst, I was a tester. You know you need to learn how to be resourceful and how you can look at different solutions and best option for both the company and the customer.
Speaker 2:And, like I said, you need to learn to how to navigate your way through more complex processes, um, and understand the other areas that might not be part of your team, but they have dependency upon you, so, so you need to make sure that that collaboration of working together is there. Large companies are definitely more data-driven than startups because they've got a history of things that work, things that haven't. So you also need to manage a wide audience of stakeholders within a larger company, um, understand who they are, get their buy-in, manage their expectations. You know larger companies go right. This is the way we're going to progress. For months In a startup, what you agreed on yesterday could now change instantly the next day, and you have to learn to adapt and be flexible. Some people don't like that.
Speaker 1:I've noticed that exactly whiplash from working at a startup and you're like let's go with it. We test weekly.
Speaker 2:Go with it exactly and if something's not 100, that's okay. You know, I've always gone by the 80 20 rule. If something is 80 there, it's good to go. Um, I think I think really the best bit of advice I can give that I've had to do with going between a startup and a large organization is you've got to be a bit of a chameleon. You've got to understand that the environment that you're in, you need to adapt your style accordingly to that environment, but always ensuring that you deliver the best possible solution, product work, whatever but you need to just go right. Ok, what do I need? How do I need to be today? I'm talking to the C-suite today. So actually, they don't want too much of the lower level detail as opposed to I'm talking to developers today. Yes, I need to go into that detail. So, yeah, I think being a chameleon is definitely what needs to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's so personal, as well as to where you can choose, where you are at what stages of your career, at what stages in life, as well as to what you choose because a startup. I've always found that you can learn really fast, really sick, and you can be given so much responsibility sometimes that, like you, you're wearing so many different hats. You're like you know what, I'll just learn, I'll learn. There's no one else here, so I will learn. That doesn't work for everyone. If you're thinking you know what I, I'm now thinking of one else here, so I will learn, that doesn't work for everyone.
Speaker 1:If you're thinking you know what I, I'm now thinking of having a family and I'm not going to have the time for that. It's a different season that you're going through and you might think I just need a stable job at this point in time where I can just shut off, do what I need to do, and then then you'll go through a season where you think you know what. I'm going to throw myself into this challenge, I'm going to learn absolutely everything, and how great that you get given that responsibility. But it is, yeah, to be hard and sometimes I think people will think being at a startup perhaps is it's easier because it's smaller and it's not always the case, because actually there's less people there to help you. So you kind of just exactly like you said, you have to be a chameleon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the the good things with a startup is you get, if you are happy to take on, a lot of knowledge and learning. You get um put in front of situations that you wouldn't do in a larger company. So you get to understand why a CEO or CTO is thinking the way they are, why marketing might do something the way that they're doing it, as opposed to larger companies where you know most people. If they're in a large company they don't see the CEO because they don't need to. You know they're doing their thing to keep the business running, whereas in a startup the ceo is trying to go.
Speaker 2:I'm giving you all this information. So it really does depend on the individual. You know you, like you say, you do have to be a particular individual to work with a startup and then to be able to adapt that in a large company, because you won't always know the information that you need to know in a startup, but actually you don't need to know it in a large company. So it's interesting. It really does depend on the individual.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. I've always loved the startup environment. It's very challenging, but you just take something from each one and move on so resilience, it seems to be a key theme in both your personal and your professional life. How has your health journey influenced your mindset or approach to work and leadership?
Speaker 2:I think for me everyone goes through ups and downs in life that that's just what happens. That's in your personal and your, your professional life, and you know that's okay and everyone deals with it differently. For me, it was very much learning to keep going, and some days that meant just putting one foot in front of the other certainly when I come out of hospital, you know, one foot in front of the other and taking each day, sometimes even each hour as it comes, um, and and the approach I took other times was actually I'm I've been doing good for these last two days, so I can take each week as it comes and then each month as it comes, but always remember what the end goal is that you're trying to get to, because that's certainly what I've done. My aim after my surgery was to get back to work, be back to work involved and be able to take on a job that I enjoyed, that I was comfortable doing and I had a bit of a responsibility. That was my end goal. I knew I wasn't going to get there day three of coming out of hospital, you know. So it was the little steps that I needed to take to get there. Day three of coming out hospital, um, you know. So it was the little steps that I needed to take to to get to that. So it's good to look at the bigger picture, um, and that's what keeps you going, um, but you don't want to try to jump to get there straight away, because otherwise you, you, just you will fall flat on your face, to be honest. So you need to take those stepping stones to get to the bigger picture, and that that's what I've always done. You know, certainly, within my career, I haven't gone. I'm going to be a product manager. I've gone, you know, I like this job, and then I like the business analyst, and then I like the general manager, and it's gradually led me up to to the end result. Um, I think, even at work with the team that I work with, I always encourage them to take the same approach, think of the end goal. But what are the small stepping stones that you need to take to to get there? Um, because if you look at the bigger goal, you become overwhelmed. Um, and I think that's very much my.
Speaker 2:My key for having the resilience that I have is it's trying not to look at the bigger picture but the individual steps. And you know, for example, as a child, when, when they're growing up, you don't expect them to walk straight away, you expect them to crawl and fall over and then crawl again and then get to cruising and then take their first steps, and that that's. You praise every single stage that they go through and that doesn't change in life. You know you need to take the small wins as well as the big ones, and if one day you've gone, taken two steps forward but three steps back, it's just been a bit of a bad day, reset and and start again tomorrow. Um, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:You're not gonna achieve everything you want to on day one, um, and, and I think you know, you just need to keep amending the path that that you're taking yourself down. It works for a while and then your path changes and you need to try something new and understand when something is too much for you. You know, when I came out of hospital you know being able to I knew I couldn't go back to my job. I say nine till five. I don't think I've done a nine till five job for for years, but you know, doing a full day's working, I knew that I needed to have a power nap in the afternoon and that was okay to do. That, you know, and I think it's learning to be kind to yourself. You know and adapt where you need to how you're feeling on that particular day. But just look at it as if you want to get to the waterfall at the end. But you just need to take these little stepping stones over the little rivers to get to the bigger piece.
Speaker 1:just need to take these little stepping stones over the little rivers to get to the bigger piece. Yes, yes, I couldn't agree more, and especially with a journey like yours as well. It's that path to recovery. It's so unpredictable that you start to think like this is the plan, doctors have told me this plan, and then that plan will change. Because it's all very unpredictable. And you're so right. If you don't adapt and take one small step and then another step, and then your path changes, if you don't get used to that, that becomes very, very overwhelming and how you're going to get through that. So you're so right to to almost break it down or just do, okay, a little step, a little step, and then, yeah, you know, instead of thinking of that all the way at the end of the path goal that you might not ever reach, whatever that first one was.
Speaker 1:So you think you know I'm gonna do something else now, but breaking it down yeah is, yeah, the only way it's key because you don't get overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:Then you know that you, you, you can see and actually what, what you need to do, and ticking off a box, you know, for me, when I first came out, even getting out of bed, having a shower, I might be shattered at the end of it, but those were two big wins for me yeah you know.
Speaker 2:So you, you take the wins and if you fall, you just get back up again. Tomorrow's a new day, as I always say to people and I think, myself. The earth will continue to evolve and nobody's going to be, nobody's going to die If you haven't achieved getting out of bed today, for example.
Speaker 1:And it's making sure that you put things into into context yeah, yeah, to be kind to yourself along the way, definitely, yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you a little bit about another type of challenge as well working in mal-dominated industries. Um, you've worked in a few, so what challenges have you faced along the way and how did you find your voice and confidence in those spaces?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, don't this is a tricky one because I don't want to come across as a, you know, all females aren't listened to or anything like that, because we certainly are. Um, but when I and I'm not going to share my age but when I started within the IT industry, exactly again and again when I started within IT, it was a very male dominated led area. Thankfully, that's changing. You know, certainly at McCades Digital, our senior leadership team is a really good mix of both male and female. Senior leadership team is a really good mix of both male and female.
Speaker 2:I think when I first started out in my career roles like such as CEOs and CTOs and other senior leadership roles they were mainly governed by males. So when I started to work my way up, I felt I needed to go above and beyond what my male counterparts were doing just to prove that I could do my job just as good as they could do. That I spoke, that I conducted myself. You know, having children, I didn't want to take too long off for maternity in case I got forgotten about. But then when I went back to work, I didn't want to talk about my children too much in case people thought that I wasn't serious about my work. So it was. It was a really fine balance and I think, to be honest, in the end it was driving me mad. You know, it really was driving me mad. All I could do and this is the best advice is show how good you are, you know. That that's the thing. Have confidence in yourself and, and I think when the penny dropped on that for me, um, the whole male, female, oh my goodness, that completely went and it was. I'm good at my job and actually they will see the results.
Speaker 2:You know, and and that was that was the thing going into a meeting having confidence, um, you know, having people listen to my opinion and actually saying to them I'm sorry, I don't agree with you because of this is and justify why you don't agree. And, to be honest, you know that's male and female, you know any gender that that's involved in a meeting. Don't be afraid to to speak up. You know, and I think every company's getting so much better now, but you're on the same level as as them and I think you know you're not going to get it 100% all the time, the 100% right all the time, but neither is anybody else, um, so I think we just listen. We learn.
Speaker 2:Uh, listen to advice, um, and learn from mistakes and look at what other seniors are doing, be it male or female, and follow their lead, but don't change you as a person. Be true to yourself and your results will shine through. And, yes, you come up against challenges, no matter what your gender is. Now Things are better. But, yeah, I was definitely at the stage when I was younger in my career very mindful of oh my goodness, what am I going to do? I need to juggle all of this, but I've calmed down and learned that it's fine as long as you just show who you are, you show your skills and you communicate with them.
Speaker 1:You, you know, might not happen overnight, but you'll shine through yes, definitely, and I think it's such good advice, because something that you learn as well is what you're. You can almost predict what you're going to be asked by your seniors as well.
Speaker 1:So, you get used to that. So when you say how to show you're good at something, you're almost learning just to predict what they're going to ask you in that meeting. So when they say, yes, that's great, but where's the data? Or how can you prove that You've already worked it out because you knew exactly, say you don't know that when you're younger. So they'll ask you something, you'll be like I don't know, you know. Or you say you don't know anything. Okay, I'll go and look it up. But you kind of get used to that and so you start to prove your worth a little bit more because you're just prepared like you almost know. I know what my boss is going to ask me before he's already said it so exactly, and that does come down to experience, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, when you go into a meeting, the kind of things that they're going to want to understand. You know that what the main purpose of that meeting is. But what I would say is, if you don't know what the purpose of that meeting is, just ask. You know, don't be scared to ask them. What's the agenda, what's the objective of this meeting? What do we want to get out of this meeting? Because you can be prepared then. But actually, if it's an ad hoc meeting that they've pulled you into, don't be scared to go.
Speaker 2:I don't know the answer to to that question, but I'm going to go away and find it out that that's not because you you're not prepared or you're thick or anything like that. That just means actually I'm going to give you a proper response once I've found out all the facts and figures. Um, and I think you know that is really important not to think, oh my god, they're going to think I'm being thick because they they won't. And another bit of advice somebody gave me is the people sat opposite you. They are trying to convince you that they're doing a good enough job and they know what they're doing the same as you're trying to convince them.
Speaker 1:Yes that's true. That is so true. Once it dawns on you, you're like everybody's doing the same thing. Exactly. That's such good advice. I wish that had dawned on me earlier. You don't have a traditional degree background and, like a lot of our community, but you've carved out a successful path in tech and product. What would you say to someone who feels like they don't tick the right boxes but they want to break into this field?
Speaker 2:It's funny because when I speak to a lot of people, they are surprised that I don't have a degree, um, and all I would say is if you, if your listeners, don't feel that going down the degree route for them is right, that's absolutely fine. If they feel going having got that degree is right for them, that's absolutely fine as well. A job description don't look at a job description and go I need a degree to even be considered. You know, look at the, your, your skills, look at your experience, because that that also plays a really big part. Um, you know, above what traditional qualifications are that are needed. Qualifications are fantastic. They, they really are good.
Speaker 2:Um, I was never academic enough to to get a degree, um, but that didn't stop me. I. I learn in different ways. So you know, if you haven't got the degree, but you want to have the confidence that you tick that box and you're keen to understand what a particular role does investigate it. We have Google, we have the Internet now and you know there's always information available. There's always information available. You can, you know you can take online courses, free, free courses. There's always articles online that people can go and research. So never stop learning, but learn in the way that works for you.
Speaker 2:Always be inquisitive and just ask why? Ask questions, find out about how other roles work, how they interact with the role that you're interested in. And, yeah, don't be scared to question why other roles are doing something, because you might even ask some questions that they've not thought of themselves, to be honest. So I think you know if you feel you don't tick the boxes, you probably do Just because you haven't got something on a piece of paper. You've got experience, either within voluntary work, within a part time, saturday, saturday job, communicating with the public. It's all those kind of things that a lot of people go yeah, but I only worked in, say, b&q, for example, and it's like, yeah, but that takes organization, that takes communication skills. You know, that takes collaboration amongst other departments. So you know, don't just think this is what they're definitely going to look at.
Speaker 2:Always look at the bigger picture, not just the qualification but the skills that you have. That means that you're suitable for that role and always be open to learning. You know, yes, yes, they might go. Ok, you don't have qualifications, but you've got the experience. They can learn, they can help you gain those qualifications if they need to the same as if you've got qualifications. They can help you learn the skills that you need. Learn the skills that you need. So I think you know, don't necessarily look at it as in right.
Speaker 1:Okay, I haven't done this bit, I haven't got the degree, you've got other experience out there yes, and if you're struggling with that, I totally agree because you could almost make sure that you ask somebody else as well what do they think your skills are?
Speaker 1:Because you don't always realize yourself. Like you said, some people think I've got a Saturday job and I haven't quite noticed the the skills that you've learned and something I share a lot on here is when I was a student I worked at McDonald's and if you've done a breakfast shift on a Sunday morning and everyone's got a hangover, they are angry and they want they will not wait three minutes for that breakfast to cook. So that kind of it made me as a young person I had to be very organized and work very quick and I noticed that we had loads of people start at McDonald's and didn't come back for the second shift. They just they could not cope with the speed of what was happening and the people that are shouting and the buzzers and it's mayhem. But it really does make you as a young person to work in an environment like that it does, and I think you know.
Speaker 2:Ask for feedback. Ask for feedback for your peers because they will compliment you in areas that to you, you're just like but that's just what I do, that's just what you should be doing in the job, but that's not obvious to everybody. So you suddenly see your, you know where you're good and they give you feedback to go actually you're good on this, but to improve it you might want to do x, y and z. And even now, on any projects that I'm on, I will always ask my team for feedback, not not to say, go on, give me a glow in the pool and make me feel great, but just to go, because I always want to learn that and and to understand that, what the way I'm working is helping you within your role. So constantly ask for feedback. Um, and you know, make sure that you look at the south and go actually it's sometimes not always common sense or what seems common sense to you is a skill that you've.
Speaker 1:You've created, yes, exactly and one of those skills as well is spinning a lot of plates and being able to do that in your career, and I wanted to ask you a little bit about balance as well. So balancing a demanding career with motherhood and a major health challenge going on as well is no small feat. So what does balance look like for you now, and what advice would you give to others who are trying to juggle it all?
Speaker 2:You're right, it's definitely been a balancing act, um, and I think for me, balance now looks very different to what it did a couple of months ago, a couple of years ago. It's a constant work in progress For me, and my advice would be prioritise. You know, don't be afraid to delegate. It's not a sign of weakness and that's what I've learned. You know, if I'm struggling, one day I might need to say to somebody can you pick this up, because I can't focus on it today, or I'm in meetings all day and it needs to be done as a priority. But actually, anyone could do it if I give you the, the information. Um, I've learned to understand what's essential and what's important, but can wait, which is which is really key. Um, if you have five people, they're going to say to you they're all priorities, what I want you to do. There will be five priorities. You'll land up trying to deliver all five, but not to the standard that it should be, so you need to go right. Okay, this one's my priority, because they need it by two o'clock tomorrow afternoon for meeting with a potential customer. This one isn't so much of a priority because they need it by the end of next week. So it's making sure that you can align the priorities correctly and and that goes for work, for home, for for the health, um, you need to be comfortable to say no and suggest an alternative. So that could be, you know, should suggest another time for a meeting um, or at least be able to explain to them why that date or time or request doesn't actually work for you at the moment. Understand and build a strong network of support. That that's key, certainly for me. That's helped me to be able to balance being a mum, having my health issues, maintaining a house, maintaining my job, um, you know, if I'm having a not so good day because of my health, anything that is involved in the home I can lean heavily on my husband on, or I've now got older children so I can try to delegate the chores to them. I say try being the operative word there.
Speaker 2:Um, also, organize a check-in with your work, with your company. You know I have a check-in with Mercator Digital once a week, once every couple of weeks. All I need to do is just ping them and they're like yeah, when do you want a coffee and chat? And it doesn't have to be in person, it can be on teams, but that just means that I can either talk to them about something that I'm finding overwhelming within work if I'm struggling with my health on a particular couple of days, they can understand. You know, they don't have crystal ball, so you know, making sure that you talk to them and you check in with them um is is really key.
Speaker 2:Everyone juggles lots of plates um, working, motherhood, health, and I think that, again, the best piece of advice that my surgeon gave me was just remember that life is a marathon and not a sprint. Yes, you know that that's what you you need to do. Um, you know I had the operation and touch wood. Everything was fine, but my recovery and my mental recovery took longer. So you know, that's where he was saying it is a marathon and not a sprint, and that really does relate to everything.
Speaker 2:Um, and just be kind to yourself. Do what works for you. It might not look conventional to anybody else and it might not work for them, but that's why we're all individuals. Um, it's about finding what works for you. Um, nothing remains static. You so being able to acknowledge the change and adapt accordingly to that, that's key as well. Just make sure that you prioritise and you delegate and you look after yourself and you've got support network. None of it is seen. If you delegate, if you talk to people, none of it's seen. If you delegate, if you talk to people, none of it's seen as a weakness. Um, it just makes it a lot clearer for you in your head. And that's certainly um what I found from having my my health issues definitely yes, and being at a company as well that enables you to do that.
Speaker 1:So you think I'm going to be kind to myself today. I'm a company that understands as well that I'm not a robot and that I am a person and a mother and all of the other things that are happening in my life, and I need a company that understands that, and not somebody that just says it on a section on their website either. But actually it's how you feel every day when you come to work, whether you can ask for flexibility when you need it. It's how you feel every day when you come to work, whether you can ask for flexibility when you need it, how it's received. All of those things are so important as to why people stay at companies and why people just leave and go and do something else Exactly.
Speaker 2:And you know, certainly within the Cades Digital, we've celebrated my son passing his driving test. They've shown concern and support when my dad's been hospitalized. Um, you know, when I first started the job and and that's key, you know it they might not necessarily have the answers at all, but being able to talk to them and you know, if they don't know anything about it they can't do something to help support you. And I think that goes for work, that goes for family. You know, if my husband doesn't know how I'm feeling, he can't do anything to help me, even though I expect his crystal ball to be working. Come on, yeah, so just remain true to yourself. It is such good advice.
Speaker 1:It's something that sometimes we tell each other, we tell ourselves, but don't always action on um, to actually be kind to yourself and speak to yourself how you would speak to your friends. We don't always take our own advice, um, but it is brilliant advice to end on because we are already out of time. It's absolutely flown by, so. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So it's been a pleasure chatting with you so absolute pleasure and I hope you know, I hope that there's just one little bit of an insight that you know your listeners might take away. Doesn't matter how big or how small. Um, all I'd say is just keep pushing for, for what you want to get to and you'll get there. You'll get there. If you don't achieve it, first of all, you'll just learn from that and then you'll go on to achieve great things.
Speaker 1:Incredible advice, thank you, and for everybody listening, as always. Thank you for joining us as well, and we hope to see you again next time.
