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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
What's your value add: Creating the confidence to negotiate for anything
How many of us go through life accomplishing one thing after another, and just moving along, not thinking about how we’re adding value to our work and companies?
Unfortunately, many people do this - particularly women, especially when they’re in male-dominated industries like tech - giving 120% without stopping to consider what value they’ve brought in.
Tamara McLemore is on a mission to help women see the value they bring to everything they do and to confidently ask for what they want in a job offer.
She sits down with Kayleigh to have an open and honest conversation about why it’s important to look at what you’re actually adding to your company and how to create the confidence your audience will need to negotiate for anything they want.
Tamara, PMP is the founder of Tamara McLemore Enterprises, an executive consultant, certified Project Management Professional (PMP) Instructor, and a sought after award-winning speaker. Her expertise lies in coaching mid-career professional women, empowering them with the necessary skills, confidence, and language to obtain their PMP Certification and secure significant career advancements.
Through her PMP Exam 2-Week Intensive, she has successfully shortened the traditional preparation timeline, enabling candidates to pass their PMP exam within 30 days (a process that typically takes 6-8 months). This accelerated timeline not only aims to achieve certification but also to position women in the careers they truly deserve.
With a wealth of experience spanning over 25 years in various industries including technology, federal government and aviation, Tamara has risen from being a project manager to now serving as the chief impact officer (CIO) of her own company. Tamara's expertise has been recognized through her appearances as a guest on the Women Of Project Management® and the Harvard Business Review, Women at Work podcasts and has been a keynote speaker at prestigious events such as the Women of Project Management Conference, AE Ignite conference, and the Wonder Women Tech summit. She is also a LinkedIn Top Voice In Project Management. Additionally, she has shared her knowledge by teaching project management at universities and organizations worldwide, including appearances in India and Dubai.
Outside of her professional endeavors, Tamara enjoys traveling extensively and lives by the motto: "To be a Service to All Mankind."
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Bateman, the Managing Director, Community and Partnerships at she Can Code, and today we are discussing what's your value add, creating the confidence to negotiate for anything. I've got the phenomenal Tamara McLemore, a project management professional with over two decades of experience. We're lucky to have Tamara with us today. She not only helps women conquer the project management professional certification in record time, but she also empowers them to demand what they're worth in the workplace. So we're going to pick her brains on that subject today. Welcome. Welcome to Spilling the Tea. Lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so, so, so excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us. I know you're a super busy lady. We're going to kick off with a bit of context about you, if that's okay. Tamara, Can we hear a little bit about you and your background?
Speaker 2:Yes, just a little bit, because I don't like to talk about myself, but I know it's we're going to drag it out of you, yes, so, like you said, I have a little bit experience in project management.
Speaker 2:I started in IT telecom industry and then I worked for the federal government where I got to do so many different of our US federal agencies and it gave me a variety of projects. I got to do the VA hospital because normally I was used to doing corporations which shut down at five or six o'clock and you can cut over without disrupting their workday, but when you're doing a hospital it's 24-7. So that was a different mindset of managing those projects. And then I went to the airlines one of the US biggest airlines, delta Airlines, and I got to do so many different projects with them. But we call it below the wing, meaning everything that gets the plane off the ground, the engine shop and above the wing as well, putting people in the seats as well as a law firm.
Speaker 2:So I've done project management just about everywhere and I just love it. And, like you said, my new goal is to people think it's to get the PMP certification, the project management certification, but really it is to decrease this wage gap between men and women. That is my true mission. And getting that PMP certification, getting the confidence, getting the swagger, getting the tools. That is my new love and my new joy helping women get that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. I'm going to cut that because I can't get my words out. Out of curiosity, what did you study? Did you fall into the tech industry or did you take a traditional route in what happened there?
Speaker 2:Truly fell in. Literally, I have a journalism degree, a mass communications degree, absolutely from Xavier University, and I thought I wanted to be a sports reporter. I really, really. In high school, I was a cover editor of the newspaper sports editor, and I thought that's what I was going to do, and I quickly found out it was not the world for me, however, writing and communicating is so important in project management as a matter of fact, it's like 100% of managing projects and so I literally fell into project management. Non-traditional, accidental, that's what I call myself the accidental project manager.
Speaker 1:I love that I was feeling as he was started just so we could talk to ladies about how they found their way into tech and the roles that they do, because so many ladies don't take computer science and come in and everybody thinks you have to be that traditional computer science student and you have to be a coder, and so we just have to hear different routes and how people fall into the tech industry because there's so many people that do that.
Speaker 2:It's so many. And the funny thing is my best friend was a computer science major and now she's a hairstylist. She went the opposite way. I highly sought after hairstylists and so we totally switched Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I love that we actually had a hairdresser on one of our live webinars and she was a hairdresser who retrained to go into tech. So I've never heard somebody go the other way. So you never know, thank you. Well, your career expands multiple industries, as you mentioned a few there, from tech to aviation to government, um. But what inspired your transition to project management and how has your pmp certification played a role in shaping your journey recently? We have a lot of ladies on here that say I want to be a project manager because I didn't actually realize that everything I was doing was project management and they don't realize all the skills they've been using actually is a project manager until they talk to a project manager and they don't realize all the skills they've been using actually as a project manager. Until they talk to a project manager and they go oh, I didn't know I was doing that. What inspired you to transition into that?
Speaker 2:so I have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So I was not inspired. I was told, and so, yeah, I had mentors that were male and they're like you're doing project management. So I started off as a project coordinator in IT and I had all my managers and directors and VPs were project managers, directors, vps and they were like you manage projects. I'm like no, no, no, I help get things done. That is a project. And I got promoted so quickly. So I used to work for Erickson and that's when I started my career.
Speaker 2:I grew up in project management at Erickson and literally they were just fostering my career and whenever I would implement something and I'm thinking that the engineers should get credit, we're clapping for them, the executives they're like no, tamara, you did that. And so they were always pointing out how I helped the project get from beginning to end and they would say to me Tamara, if you're sick or out on vacation, shit don't get done. And I'm like sure it does. I have this set up. I have these emails, I have this spreadsheet. They're like people still can't get it from one stage to the next. So they helped me recognize very, very early in my career that I was a project manager and a great project manager, and so I credit that to great mentors and sponsors who, by the way, were men, because those are the ones that were, you know, well-respected in the industry.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that You're so right. So many ladies don't realize that they're doing all of that anyway and that they're really good at that and they keep things moving. I love that you said that you help to get things done. Instead of explaining to people that she was sales when she met them, she'd just say I find the shortest route to the money, and that was it. And you just totally summed up what you do without saying you're a project manager. I help get things done, that's it. That's all you need to know.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's so funny you're saying that, because my community and I used to say, oh, I'm just for women that are in tech. But really now I have teachers that are transitioning to project management. I have nurses, doctors, pharmacists, you name it finance HR people that do so. I also have people that do events all these events. We have the Superbowl here in the US. I have people that are working on that, so you name it. I have people that are getting shit done. Excuse my language. Now they realize by me breaking down the technical jargon and not being so technical with it, they can see themselves like yeah, in my industry I'm the go-to person and I can get things done from beginning to end, including all stakeholders, from executives all the way to people that are actually boots on the ground, and having them see that they can come in and turn around a project or initiative or other duties assigned because you don't have to have a title. That is what everybody thinks is that you need the title. That couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 1:Yes, and those projects that are stalling because people are just going around they don't know how to move them forward. You're right, it's somebody that just comes in and says this is what we're doing and not having to know that technical jargon so important, because so many ladies we've had ladies on this podcast and members of our community say you know, I didn't know. As a project manager, I didn't need to code, I didn't need to understand all of that technical language, I just needed to know how to communicate between teams and keep driving it forward.
Speaker 2:Nothing to do with being techie that's it and I'm so glad you're saying that. I like want to just shout that from the crafters, because that's what people think and they say well, tamara, you're an SAP guru, you've been using SAP and all these PeopleSoft and Salesforce for all these years, but I am not in the system. Of course I wasn't in SAP back in the day but now I don't even get a log on. When I get, you know, when the companies hire me, I don't even get a log on. But because I understand all the modules, I understand the finance, the sales part, the material part, I have a bird's eye view. I can help get it from beginning to end. That's what you need to know. So, whatever your sweet spot is, whatever you bring to the table, that's what you emphasize and the other stuff that you don't know, you hire because project management is a team sport. People think it's the individual sport. It is a team sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to have lots of soft skills to communicate with everybody upwards and downwards, you have to have those soft skills, and so here in the US I have just recently been corrected we're calling them power skills now because they don't look at them as hard versus soft, because these softer skills are essential, and so now we're calling them power skills. And so, just yeah, I love it as well. You see how I kind of perked up when I said power skills. In addition to that, the new project management certification exam is 42% people I'm going to say that again. The new PMP exam, they're testing you on softer power skills stakeholder management, resource management, the power skills. So 42% of the new exam focuses on those other skills that we take for granted.
Speaker 1:That's very high.
Speaker 2:Extremely, and so people are starting to realize wait a minute, I've been doing this all along per PMI.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, one topic I wanted to talk to you about a very taboo topic is salaries as well. It's something that people don't talk about, but obviously we have those awkward conversations when we need to negotiate salaries, and you've helped so many women negotiate their higher salaries and more flexible roles as well. Another taboo topic that we don't like to talk about. But what are some of the biggest mindset shifts that women need to make to advocate for themselves? It's incredibly difficult sometimes. How can they advocate for themselves confidently in male-dominated fields like technology? That's a big question.
Speaker 2:So the first thing women need to do is understand their value and not just understand it in their mind. They have got to write it down and not a dissertation, not begging or mansplaining is what I call it, but some clear bullets. What have you reduced, what have you increased? What have you taken from beginning to end? Did you take a project and rescue it? Did you do a multimillion dollar project? Did you just? You know what did you do and put it in bullets. Because what did we? If I was to ask you what did you have for dinner two Tuesdays ago, you could not tell me no idea, no idea. So how was management supposed to know what projects you did for the last 12 months? Impossible, and even we don't remember. So I have the women that I coach have a brag book, so as soon as they finish that project, they put it in their notes somewhere. They write it down. That way, when performance reviews come up, they have bam, bam, bam. These are the projects that they let manage, remind management that they've done, and then they have no ifs, ands or buts about getting that promotion or that raise, and you don't have to really beg for it. It is in black and white, your contributions right there. And what people don't understand is management. We have so many people that we manage, we can't remember what everybody has done through the whole year. So you're just helping them, help you. So that's the first thing.
Speaker 2:The next thing is we need to do our homework. So we do our homework on what a house costs. We do our homework on what a car costs. You know we put the different packages on a car. We get the base car, you know. We get the midway, we just drape the car in everything that the dealership has. But for what we do for eight to 10 hours a day, we have no idea what we should be getting paid. That has got to change. We should know. And so the internet, the worldwide web, it has everything. Whether you go to Google University, you go to LinkedIn, it has the data on what you should be making, and so you have to do your research. So that's what I would say. Just, we got to change our mindset around that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that Because then you can go in as well on a hopefully a level playing field and say you know, like this is the research that I've done, you always had that awkward conversation where you're waiting for the employer to give you the offer as well If you're not already in the job and you're asking for a pay rise and you're just interviewing to get into that company. There's that awkward conversation of, well, you tell me what you're willing to offer, not always what you're after and your worth. So it's always. It's such a taboo and some companies just, the more transparent you are, the more likely someone is to stay as well as to get off on a wrong.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and so I have women think of this as dating. When you get more serious with somebody, you need to know what they're bringing to the table, and we have to treat it like dating because once again, we're going to be with this company eight to 10 hours a day, five days a week. For how many years we're in a relationship? So if we go in a relationship feeling like we didn't, we got the short end of the stick or we're not as happy, that just makes for an awkward relationship. When we didn't do our research, we didn't have the courage to ask. So we ask our partner make sure they're working where they say they should make sure't have the courage to ask. So we need we ask our partner, you know, make sure they're working where they say they should make sure they have good credit. There are things about our spouse. Before we go down the aisle, we want to make sure they have. So we have to treat our employer the same way.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. Yes, well, you made that commitment of kind of walking down the aisle. I love that. And I love the fact that you mentioned managers and, um, like what, managers are managing lots of people and they do forget things. But also I've had ladies, uh, from our community tell me that, um, managers, they're not mind readers and they don't know as well if you even want that promotion or you, you know even to go for it. So some of our ladies, they you know even to go for it. So some of our ladies, they say, you know, I sat too long hoping that somebody would notice that I was doing all the right things instead of just putting myself forward. It's kind of like nobody's coming for you. You have to put yourself forward, advocate for yourself, and the moment you realize that you think actually it's only me that's going to be able to do that, I have to speak up.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, that is so correct. So one of my last positions before COVID, I got called in the management office and one of my business analysts she complained on me because I didn't recognize her. And my boss was like did you ask her? Did you tell her you wanted to transition to be a project manager? Because, yes, she was doing so. My boss said did you ask Tamara? Did you tell her you wanted to be a project manager?
Speaker 2:And crickets, she was like no, and she actually went and complained that I did not recognize her. And he said you cannot do that. You have to have a conversation with Tamara, just like you're having with me. And so she came back she ate crow is what we call in the US and she had that conversation. I'm like, oh my God, I need to train somebody, I'm exhausted. And I started letting her take over my meetings and she became a really good project manager. Now did she step on some toes and burn some bridges? Absolutely, because she was upset with all of us for not, you know, recognizing her when she should have spoken up. And so, like you said, a lot of women do that and then they're frustrated when men go in the office and say I want to be promoted and this is why they're not waiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and if they don't get it, they don't get it, but at least they were honest about it and said you know I'm interested, please consider me. Yeah, and this kind of goes into a point about I know it's something that you talk about a lot, about how corporate environments can often erode women's confidence, so being in that environment that that is not a good place for you to be, especially when pursuing certifications like the PMP. What advice would you give to someone feeling hesitant or unqualified to take the next step in their career?
Speaker 2:Everybody is qualified to be a project manager. I literally had somebody that was only out of school for two years. So if you have a degree, you need three years of project management experience. If you don't have a degree, you need five. That is just three to five years worth of working experience. We have it.
Speaker 2:People think I have to work in this for this major multi-billion dollar industry or company to have it. That is far from the truth, and so I help people sit down and really say what initiative or other duties assigned have I done? And people think that you need to have done the project from beginning to end. But that's just not how the real world works at your job. Seldom do I start a project from beginning to end, but that's just not how the real world works at your job.
Speaker 2:Seldom do I start a project from beginning to end. Sometimes I get the project in the middle and I rescue it and then take it to completion. Sometimes I start the project, I have it on a good path and now they want someone else to take it over. You can put those projects on your application, and so I tell people ask, raise your hand and really talk to a professional like myself to see if you really qualify. I have never had someone who did not qualify, maybe one time where I was like, well, just get one more year of experience. But I have coached not hundreds, thousands of people and they all qualify.
Speaker 1:Ah yeah, and you know we have that question a lot in our community about is it too late to try something new? Have I left it too late in my career, which we always find is absolute rubbish to say. But also, if you're just getting started, how do you show you even have experience is something that we get asked so often, but it's not always. Companies aren't always looking for that experience either, are they? Like we said about the soft skills and and everything that you've done in a previous role as well, it's not like that's all been disregarded. You were probably already doing those things in your last role. It's just how do you communicate them for your new career journey, or your new role? Really is is the thing absolutely so.
Speaker 2:People think it has to be in tech. So let me give you an example. I have people in the education field and I asked her what are those other duties assigned? And the one that I like to bring up to them is did you have any input on the new curriculum that the school is using, whether it's you know, kindergarten through, you know high school or you school or higher education? And normally they say yes. So when you research those curriculum companies, that was a project. You narrowed it down from like 20 to maybe five and then you implemented three within a small subset of the school. The testing scores went up and you implemented it through the school district. That is a project. And you're like so you just be surprised A new rollout of pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 2:I have a couple people that do research in that industry, from the time the drug is being tested to the time it rolls out and gets approval from our governing body. That is a project. So I can go on and on. It has a beginning and an end, and so we just have to think. Different. People always think, like you said, it has to be coding, it has to be so technical. You know that if it's not technical, you can't use it and that's not accurate. Every industry needs a project manager.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a definite myth about working in tech. Everybody needs to be technical and there are so many project managers and female project managers and everyone that I've spoken to that went into that role said I didn't even know it existed. That's the thing it's. You know, everybody in tech is like, oh, you should go into project management but said unless somebody tells you that, or you know someone that's working in it, or a lot of our ladies say, oh, my husband was doing something similar and I realised that's how I fell into tech. So it's those things that sometimes the more visible a role is, the easier it is for everybody else. But I completely agree you don't have to be techie to be in tech and it's something that we try and get out there and spread that message and your course.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask you about your two-week PMP intensive course, which has a 95% success rate Amazing. But what makes your approach so effective and what common mistakes do people make when preparing for that all-important PMP exam?
Speaker 2:So people think that my success is because I'm just whipping, you know, just whipping them into shape. That is not accurate. I have to change their mindset. So even before they enroll in the class, I make sure I meet almost everyone and I change their mindset so that they can see I'm not transitioning into project management. I am a project manager. I might not have the title, so when they go in with that in the bootcamp, a lot of these courses have the made up scenarios that are in the book. I don't use those.
Speaker 2:I help everybody in my bootcamp with their application so that way I know what they're doing day to day and I use those examples in the bootcamp. So let's say we're going over risk management, which is one of my favorite knowledge areas. I help everybody understand they have mitigated risk on their project, meaning reduce risk in some form or fashion. Whether you're in education, whether you're in finance, whether you're in healthcare every industry you have reduced risk and people just start having aha moments and so, even before the bootcamp is over, they're using the tools that they've learned. So, for an example, this is the second week of the boot camp that I have going on now.
Speaker 2:Last week people went to their boss during a meeting and some of the engineers just weren't getting things done and they were able to speak up. They were able to tell the business we need your input on these meetings so that you can clearly tell us what you want. At the end she broke down what the tech was saying, from the key stakeholders to logistics Management, took note and was like, oh my goodness, we need to promote you. So I know you're saying what is my success rate? But it is not about getting the piece of paper. It is about learning the tools. That makes you an effective project manager. And then you get the piece of paper, then you get the PMP certification. That's the bonus.
Speaker 1:Yes, and all of that. I love that. All of that comes down to learning how to communicate learning how to communicate with your team and making things easier for other people. I spoke to a lady last week who works in data she works in data research and she said to me as much as I love data research and that's all great, if no one else can translate what I'm doing and what it means for everybody else, what does it even matter? And that's kind of the trick with project management You're there to help everybody understand what is actually happening, to move forward. So that person being able to speak up to management management just suddenly going.
Speaker 2:Oh, Exactly, and so once you see what you bring to the table and I'm a component of strength finders there's a myth in project management that you have to be able to do everything. No, no, no, this is a team sport. So, whatever you do, well, that's what you do and, like I said before, you hire for your weakness. So my weakness. I manage $150 million in projects on any given organization. Guess what? I'm not a whiz in Excel. I'm not sitting in the system. I have a great project coordinator that can manage the finances on a day to day. I know them high level. I know what to look for, the burn rate, things like that. But I have a team that helps me with my weaknesses and I focus on my strengths.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're so right. I think ladies do this in particular, and I have had a few ladies who said, when I stepped into leadership, I everybody I thought everybody expected me to have all the answers and to be able to do everything, and it takes a little while to realize actually I don't need to know everything or do everything. And you just said they're hiring for weakness because they're they're doing the jobs that you can't do and your team isn't looking at you like, well, why doesn't she know how to do everything? She doesn't have to have all the answers. You are right, it's a team sport and it is something that takes a little while to think.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I'm known for bringing everybody. So BC I called BC before COVID. When we were in the office I was known for bringing at least two people to these highly technical meetings. I'm bringing my business analysts and let's say, I might bring somebody in cybersecurity or somebody in data. Like this is a team sport. They're like okay, tamara needs about three to five seats in here, absolutely, because you're going to ask me questions and instead of me saying I can say I can get back to you. That is perfectly allowable, but if I bring the subject matter experts with me, we can go ahead and hash this out. That way we don't have to have another meeting. You don't want the meeting after the meeting. So, bringing the dream team with her to answer these hard questions that I just can't answer, yes, everything just keeps moving to get, to launch or wherever it is that you need to get to.
Speaker 1:I had a lady tell me once and it's something that has stuck with me in so many things in personal life as well and professional but she said to me done is better than perfect. And sometimes I just think just get it done, we get it done, and then we tweak it but get things over the line because so many people cannot get it over the line and so they never move forward. Or you lose good staff because they get frustrated that they never actually complete anything, because somebody has been so hung up on perfection that they just never achieve it. And it stays with me and everything done and you know what.
Speaker 2:So the newest methodology is agile. We've been doing agile forever, but it's known to be, you know, prominent in the tech industry, and so at the beginning of my bootcamp, I make sure that everybody, day one or two, have a great understanding of agile. And that is getting it out, getting it done. And so with our phones, whether you have a Apple phone or a Droid they get it out. Those apps are not perfect. They have bugs, and monthly they send out new releases which gives you an update. That is being agile. If the tech companies thought about perfect, we would never have technology, and so we have to switch that mindset to get it out there, get feedback. What are the features people are using? Oh, I thought they would love this new application, but really they're using this. Oh, we didn't do enough cybersecurity. Oh, we need to collect some more data on this. Oh, we need different integration. And then guess what? In two more weeks they'll have a patch which fixes everything, and and so nobody's poly perfect anymore. That that has to go out the window.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, because so many people just get hung up on that. I love that you're switching that, that mindset, to that to get get shit done, as you said at the beginning. That's how we do it. What about confidence? That's how we do it. Um, what about um confidence? So how do you help your clients translate the skills and confidence they gain from earning their pmp into that real world career advancement, such as landing a promotion or transitioning um into a new industry? Is there anything that you do with that, like actually sometimes studying? Something doesn't always align with when you get into the world of work and what you're doing. It can be quite a baptism of fire. So do you prepare them in some way?
Speaker 2:I do, and that's why it's so important that they use the skills even before they get the piece of paper, even before they leave my boot camp. And so, like I said, last week alone we had people trying it out, working with the business, working with the BA, having that bridging that gap between the highly technical people with the C-suite, and seeing that, oh my God, this works. And so every time I have someone do that. So, example we talked about business analysts.
Speaker 2:I mentioned that term and one of the people in the bootcamp he was like oh my gosh, I didn't get a promotion recently, an internal promotion, because they were asking me and I had no idea what they're talking about. And now I know I shouldn't have gotten that job. I had no idea what they were talking about. Now I'm real crystal clear. So now he's ready for the next promotion because he knows he's doing the job. But he didn't understand the language and I made him recite what is a business analyst? What are the responsibilities? Breaking down those business requirements, those end user requirements and people think they're so technical and it is. What is an end user going to do with Apple Pay, with Apple Music? Like just breaking it down? How are we going to push start our car without inserting a key? That is a user story and he just you could see in the bootcamp.
Speaker 1:So that's why and it's different for every company as well. So you're right, those skills that they'll learn from you on how to how to take that to every company that you go to as well and just think OK, this is what I need to do, this is how I'm going to translate. It's not something that just stops at the first job. That's going to continue.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Another person in the boot camp. She does retreats and it's this retreat regarding a certain type of she does retreats, these international retreats for women, and they needed some therapists. Well, she wasn't clear on the type of therapist Well, you have so many therapists and counselors and just so many credentials and what they specialize in and she was too general and so she realized she needed to really understand what were the people that were attending the retreat really need so that we can research those therapists that are needed, those mental health professionals, and so everybody's just looking at the end result and then backtracking so they're getting a different mindset. So that's how I know that they're getting it and I am so excited for everyone that's getting this new PMP certification because it is working immediately.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you, you have worked with so many professionals as well, worldwide, and you work with people from India to Dubai and, obviously, the US and all over. What about trends? What have you seen? What global trends or challenges have you observed in project management, and how can women in tech stay competitive in such a rapidly evolving field?
Speaker 2:So this question came up last night. I tell people get the ROI off the one certification and then do a survey of how other people view you. They have so many professional type of surveys on what your peers think about you. What do your friends think about you, so that you know should I go into Agile and get that certification? You mentioned data. Should I go into data? Should I go into AI?
Speaker 2:Don't get on the trend. That is going to be an uphill battle, but what is something that you already are doing a little bit of or really interested in and want to explore, and that's what you should get into. Next, you should write everything that you potentially want to do, but then ask people. You know their opinion. They're like girl, you've been doing data, like when we go on trips. You look at the data and the lessons learned and they will tell you oh, you're already been doing it and it's not an uphill battle. Once you realize I do have some expertise in this trending topic A lot of people are using AI and chat, gpt or you can call it whatever you want to call it on your phone and just getting their feet wet, but when you really look at it, we've been using it for a long time, and so maybe that's something you want to get into.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's such a tech is so vast as well, and I think people can get very confused about well, where do I want to start, especially if you're transitioning into the tech industry for the first time. Where do I want to work? Where do I want to start? People always go for those kind of more sexier routes or where they think they want to work and then actually like talking to loads of data ladies. They're like I absolutely love working over here, the impact that you make, working in data and being at the right company that you know allows you to really make something of data and make um, make a big impact on our customers.
Speaker 1:You know it's knowing all of those different areas and how to take those certifications that they're learning with people like yourselves and applying them to those roles is so important in finding something that's really relevant to you Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I want to say one thing relevant to you Absolutely. And I want to say one thing the easiest way to transition is at your own company, because they already know what you bring to the table. They know you're good at your job and they have a sneak peek of, oh, she'll be good at this. And so once you make your boss and the organization know that you're interested in something else, then they're like oh my gosh, we need more help. This is where you know we have all these positions and I think you would be great for that. You can do a transition. They have professional development programs where you can rotate and go take a sneak peek for six months a year. So start at your company. Every company have all these divisions that you want to be you're interested in. So I tell people, don't leave your company. If you love the company and they know what you bring to the table just research and they have a more tech side to it Just transition and go over to the other organization.
Speaker 1:You know what that's such a good tip? Because good companies they don't want to lose good talent as well, and they some of our corporate ambassadors they have said that their ladies will move around different departments and they'll start those companies like 20, 30 years and just move around. And that company just thinks, no, we're not losing that talent, we'll allow them to go off and try something else because they're going to do it anyway. So you might as well keep them instead of losing them elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and they may come back around. A lot of people do that. We call them boomerangs or two-piece, three-piece. They will come back around and they'll bring more to the table when they come back to that group or that organization.
Speaker 1:Yes, I worked for an organization that was like that Everybody come back around to that organisation, but they kind of prided themselves in that's how they left things with people. It's like go on and do something new, but we'll see you in a few years. It's absolutely fine. There are certain companies that are like that. Tamara, we're already out of time. I could keep talking to you for several hours on this topic. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on here. Thank you so much for coming on and having a chat.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. Hopefully I help you know. People in your community understand and know that they're project managers and if they want to reach out to me, they can find me at Iwantmypnpcom. I have a free quiz. You answer a couple of questions and you can clearly see that, huh, I'm already a project manager and then my calendar is on there so they can set up a free consultation where we can just talk it through. You'd be surprised how many people will set up a consult with me. All I do is go look at their LinkedIn and I can pull out projects that they've done where they see it as operations and regular work, other duties that they've been doing, and I can pull out the projects and they're like I've been a project manager all along. So, to your community, that is my free gift to them.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you. We're going to add a link to you as well in the episode blurb. So, community please do take a look at that. Please do reach out to Tamara, because there are also so many project managers in our community that would love to meet you and to all help each other as well. We're a collaborative community, so everybody dips in and helps each other. So we will definitely add a link of how to reach out to you. So, thank you so much and for everybody listening, as always, thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
