.png)
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Navigating wellness and resilience in the tech industry
In this episode, we dive into the challenges of maintaining wellness and resilience while working in the tech industry.
Join us as we explore the often-unspoken challenges faced by tech professionals, from the high-pressure environments to the relentless pace of innovation with Aleksandra Łoś, CEO of TrueMe.
We'll discuss practical strategies for building resilience and maintaining wellness, drawing on Aleksandra’s extensive experience and insights. Tune in to discover how you can balance the rewards of working in tech with the need for personal well-being and resilience.
Aleksandra brings over 14 years of experience in the IT sector, having worked with organizations such as Accenture, Microstrategy, Boston Scientific, NATO, the World Health Organization, BSV Blockchain, and the Polish Blockchain Association. She has also founded three innovative startups: Together, Labo Now, and TrueMe, and serves as a Business Angel, investing in startups leveraging Blockchain technology.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in Again. I am Kayleigh Batesman, the Content Director at she Can Code, and today we are discussing navigating wellness and resilience in the tech industry. We're going to explore the often unspoken challenges faced by tech professionals, from the high-pressure environments to the relentless pace of innovation, and I've got the amazing Alec Loss with me today. She's the CEO of TrueMe and we're going to dive into this topic a little bit with her today. Hello Alexandra, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Hello, thank you so much for the invitation and this opportunity. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. We haven't had this topic on here before and we are so excited to delve into this a little bit with you today and hear all about TrueMe. Can we kick off with a little bit about you, your background, how you got into tech? Did you fall into tech? Tell us all about you.
Speaker 2:Sure, so I've been always passionate about technology. However, when I was in uni, I was studying business accounting and then, after my MBA which I did my MBA in Argentina I was thinking about starting working at management consulting, but for some reason it didn't work out and I got I was asked to. I got an offer from MicroStrategy. The reason why I got this offer was because I finished my bachelor degree in France, so I was speaking fluent French, and apparently they decided that it's easier to teach someone basis of the SQL and coding than French. So I got this job in MicroStrategy in Paris and that's how my journey with tech started.
Speaker 2:Then, similarly, I would say just around a decade ago, I got involved with blockchain and blockchain infrastructure. So from one hand, I was passionate about technology, then blockchain and through this time also personal development was crucial for me Mental health. I was struggling with a eating disorder. So from one perspective, I was having this highly successful career in tech, but from the other hand, I was struggling with my mental health, and that's how Trumi came to fruition. So it's my opportunity to combine those two passions of mine technology and mental well being and share my journey and perhaps inspire others to also start looking underneath the hood and start checking with them on a daily basis. How are they feeling, what are they feeling and how are they feeling about themselves?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's nice that you said you combined two loves there tech and mental wellbeing. Did you ever think that you would be working in an industry like that, where you could do that, Because tech offers quite a lot of opportunities, doesn't it? And looking back, did you think that's what I would be doing? I'd be working in tech and actually I'd be doing something I really love.
Speaker 2:So, yes and no, it's a really good question because, from one perspective, I had this impression that I'm already doing what I love. So Trumi is my third startup, and so I've been always building, tinkering, trying to do something cool and innovative, because I love freedom. So working tech industry, especially in startups, gave me this freedom of expressing myself let's put it this way in a technological way However, only last year, because Strumi was created in November last year, because, it's true, me was created in November last year. So only last year it actually occurred to me that I can have it all in terms of combining my two biggest passions, because there was always this split of I'm loving what I'm doing, but it actually never occurred to me that I can combine those two, exactly as you mentioned.
Speaker 2:So I think it's kind of like a message saying if you've got the dream or there is something you're content with what you're doing, that there is this little voice in your head saying there might be something else. Just listen to this voice, because it's very easy to fall into the traps of yeah, I'm okay, I love what I'm doing, but then there's the question are you actually fulfilling your potential? Are you actually expressing everything that you can be doing and if you are really living to the fullest and which implies, of course, growing and and having challenges. Not only loving what you're doing, but also getting this little uh nudge of is what I'm doing, allowing me to get better and better every single day?
Speaker 1:yes, yes, I couldn't agree more. And on that could you just give us a quick overview of TrueMe and what to expect from that and why you started it?
Speaker 2:With pleasure. So In general, I mean, the goal of TrueMe is to build tools that cultivate self-awareness. The goal of Trumi is to build tools that cultivate self-awareness. Our first, very first product is a journal called Discover Yourself with Joy. It's a 28-day program divided into four sections emotions, body, learning from emotions and values. And every single day a user is encouraged to do a very small exercise. So on the first day it's a relaxation to be listened to. On the second day it's a simple question what are you feeling? And there's a list of emotions from which we choose.
Speaker 2:And the concept is that through this program, we are building a habit of thinking about ourselves, finding a time during the day being like, ok, these two minutes are only about me and nothing else is important. And on the first day and the last day of the program, there is a question how comfortable, how happy are you with your life and what are the level of agency that you've got in your life? And the same questions being asked on the first day and the last day. So we've got the comparison, the user's got a comparison whether the program worked for him or not. And, last but not least, the idea is that the user is supposed to complete 28 days in a row. If a day is missed, you need to start over. So, at the end of the day, if we are not able to find those two minutes for ourselves during the day, if we are not able to find those two minutes for ourselves during the day, um, I think this is like a foundation of uh, of mental well-being to be able to think about ourselves, oneself, um, and prioritize oneself, even for those couple of minutes per day. So that's our MVP, or rather our proof of concept to verify when it's actually going to work. And now we are working on the entire platform, which is going to include multiple courses prepared in collaboration with therapists and coaches. Mental health content creators are going to be able to sell their podcasts or ebooks through this platform.
Speaker 2:And the most important element is the user, whose development is based on the various psychological theory, including integral theory. So you're guiding the user to become more self-aware, to build a habit of thinking about oneself, to regain our agency and to be able to live life to the fullest, because I really believe that our relationship with ourselves implies what's going to be our relationship with others, implies what's going to be our relationship with others. And if we don't like ourselves, there's this contest and mind chatter that, oh, I should do it better. No, I don't think I deserve it. Oh, perhaps, oh, I did something wrong. Like we are, we don't able to support ourselves. Um and by support I meant really mentally be a strong foundation for ourselves, knowing that these are my boundaries, these are my values, this is what's important for me, this is, this is what I'm allowing in my life, this is what I'm willing to agree on, but this is what I'm saying no to. So if we don't have those um foundations, those elements deeply rooted in ourselves, I think it's really difficult to build relationship with others. Um, so that's what we are trying to achieve with Trumi.
Speaker 2:I know it's a big vision, but I really believe that we, as humanity, we need it to some extent.
Speaker 2:There's so much chatter about what AI is going to do, how it's going to change our jobs.
Speaker 2:There's fear around it, and I fully understand it, and I fully understand it. But I also believe that if we as society, as humanity, we are to use those amazing tools to our benefit, we first need to increase our self-awareness. So we will be using our phones, we will be using those machines to help us, instead of spending or wasting our most source research, which is our time scrolling on the phone right or on TikTok or Instagram, and we're just getting into this huge, like you know, rabbit hole of social media. It's just wasting, losing ourselves. We, social media just wasting, losing ourselves. We not wasting, losing ourselves into it because we don't have a deeply rooted foundation of who we are, what is important to us, and then, yeah, we're like this little flag, you know, we just are, we're going to left, you're going to right. So, yeah, that's the problem that we are trying to solve at trumi. Yeah, and let's see how it's gonna um, yeah, where this journey is gonna take us um, amazing, amazing journey to be on.
Speaker 1:Um, and, as you said, so so relevant for now as well. Um, so relevant for what happened to everybody in the pandemic and how life changed afterwards and setting boundaries seem to suddenly be a lot harder, um, especially with with work-life balance. Um, so very, very relevant. And I love the fact as well that, through me, um, you have to do it. Um, you can't have a break in that program either and it makes you start over. So you have to find those two minutes for yourself every day. It makes you start over. I'm in true me, everybody in this community will. We'll add a link so you can um join and get in, uh, be part of the program and work your way through it.
Speaker 1:Um, but I am in and working my way through and I love the fact that it will stop me if I miss it. Um, because you're right, just finding those two minutes that you know consistently, finding two minutes for yourself instead of always thinking of what am I doing next? What am I doing for work, what am I doing for family or friends or whoever. You're right, you never have those, those moments to just stop for yourself. And that chatter another fact you referred to that as chatter. Um, because you, you do have those, those inner thoughts of you know, am I doing things well? Do I deserve this? All of those thoughts? Um, sometimes you just need to stop and, uh, steady yourself and take those two minutes.
Speaker 1:So this is a great program. Um for that, definitely um. So this obviously was started. You started this from um, some of your own experiences of working in a in a high pressure environment. So can you tell us a little bit about that? How have you personally navigated the high pressure environment of the tech world and kind of led you on this path of thinking you know what this, this um creation of true me, would really help people. How have you navigated that?
Speaker 2:um, I would say there are two aspects of it.
Speaker 2:So there is a daily work and the broader perspective. So, when it comes to daily work, it's really important to build this foundation which we spoke about. And for me, I'm also a yoga teacher, so every single day I wake up and I do some yoga practice, I meditate and of course, I'm not encouraging everyone to start doing it this straight away but even something as simple like having a slow morning. So usually what we do, we wake up next to our phone. The first thing we're doing oh, I'm grabbing my phone and there is only like messages and this and that, and we're already rushing into a day. So the first day is the first thing. So it is really about taking care of your daily routines.
Speaker 2:So what really helped me was prepare your day. Your morning starts the night ahead. So what does it mean? Leaving your phone in a room that is not your bedroom, so you don't have an opportunity to grab your phone first thing in the morning List the things that are the most important thing that you are supposed to do the next day, to write them down on the paper in the evening. So in the evening we are leaving our phone aside, we've got some journal like notebook, whatever it's gonna be, and just write two, three things that we would like to do next day. Um, that's gonna make us feel accomplished, because I think and especially for women, we are. We're just amazing like we are able to accomplish so many things during one day. We're like you know this powerhouse, but then at the same time, it's exactly as mentioned family, friends, colleagues and this and that, and we want to be there for everyone. But when we are being there for everyone, it's very often we just end up not having any energy. So it's really worth writing down those two, three things that you want to accomplish the next day. It's like, okay, if I'm going to sort out the electricity bills, I'm going to send out my CVs five and then I'm going to do the laundry, that's going to be enough. That's going to be enough for me to feel at the end of a day that, okay, it was a good day. If we're gonna do more, brilliant, but just set up this expectation, which is manageable, uh, and it also help us build trust with ourselves.
Speaker 2:So, so that's one thing and it's this is about this daily, um, let's say daily routines and daily foundation of of being take, taking care of our mental well-being and, from this um broader perspective, which I mentioned, um, and I think it's applies especially in tech industry, uh, I spoke with multiple uh programmer, the guys who are working in the industry, and I also spoke with many, many women and, to be honest, I haven't met many women who haven't struggled with that. And it's the imposter syndrome. Yeah, because so in case of guys, it's say it's simpler but it's less complex because the issue that they're struggling with is, ah, yeah, okay, the tech industry is changing so quickly. So, in order for me to be up to date is very difficult and I'm missing something. I don't know everything. There's going to be a better technique. Oh, my God, I'm actually not the best. I'm pretending to be the best.
Speaker 2:Here we go Impostor syndrome, but in case of female in tech industry, it's a little bit more complex because there's this element of tech industry developing very quickly, but there's also this element of we are females in masculine industry and it's challenging and it can be overwhelming. So what I was struggling with for a very long time was this feeling that I would over prepare, I would get the best presentations and make sure that everyone is happy and ensure that my team is happy, and very often my well-being was not that important as the importance of my team. So my main team needs to be happy. They need to get everything ready and I'm just their servant leader, making sure that they've got everything they need. And it's like, no, if I'm not happy and I'm not content and I don't feel empowered, I'm not going to be able to lead a team. And then it gets us to the point that there is this very quickly developing industry, but then females are just being treated. But then females are just being treated I don't want to say like a second hand citizens, because perhaps it's sometimes even not about how we are being treated, but very often it's just we feel this way when we are entering the room which is full of guys, like, of course I'm going to feel intimidated.
Speaker 2:I was for for over three, four years I was going to feel intimidated. I was for over three, four years. I was. I was a board member for multiple companies and majority of those guys in the board were just guys, you know. And then it was me and there was this question so who are we going to ask for coffee? I mean Alex, because she is the woman right. So it's really and it kind of comes back to the very beginning of our conversation that if we don't have this strong foundation of who we are and if and this very deep trust in oneself and ourselves, then when we are getting out there to the board meetings and there are only guys, we can really feel very insecure because uh, yeah, it's, it's a very challenging environment, it can be a very challenging environment yes, you're so right that that, knowing who you are, that really does go, uh, uh, bleed into your professional life as well.
Speaker 1:And and and how you feel in those situations. I love the fact that you tied them together and you said um, making a list of things that you do every day to get through them build trust in yourself, and that does, because then you feel productive. You know that you did everything that you wanted to do that day, and things for yourself, and you're so right you take that with you into important meetings where you think you know I can trust myself because I am productive and if I say I'm going to do something, I will get it done and it will find time to do it. Um, and you're, you're so right in the sense that, um, sometimes it's not what people say, but you might be thinking you know, especially as a I've had lots of females on here echo what you said about having to over prepare for things, because sometimes you might feel as if, as a woman, you might be there just ticking a box.
Speaker 1:You know that you didn't actually get that job because you deserve it and that you've worked your way to that position. You got it to tick a box and they needed a woman on that board, for instance, even if nobody says it, you might be feeling that way and you're so right. If you think to yourself you know what, I am highly productive in other areas of my life and I can tick off a lot of things and I am that person who can just plow through and see results, then you're so right that really does trickle through into that feeling of when you do make it, um, that you can just sit there in your own confidence and think, yeah, I am meant to be here, whether people say it or not exactly.
Speaker 2:There's one uh trick which I found very helpful is that I've got a piece of paper. It's always with me in my little notebook and it's 10 things which I'm really proud of. So, in this very moment, my 10 biggest achievements and of course course, I actually get this little routine that update, update them on my birthdays. So during my birthday, like, okay, so there's my list, uh, what are my 10 achievements which I'm most proud of? And then, if there's a moment when I'm in doubt, or again, exactly as you mentioned before, this big moment, I'm like reviewing this list, like hey, I'm actually worth it.
Speaker 2:I know I did it, I did it so many times, I've got it in me, let's do it. And, yeah, it's a very helpful trick. I really encourage everyone to even not necessarily take it to full extent and have a list updated on their birthday, but just sit down and what are those two, three things which I'm really proud of? Like for me, like, not moments which I'm proud of, but the things which I created that I'm proud of, to really I'm proud of, to really enforce in oneself this, um, this creative aspect that, yeah, I was able to do it, I'm proud of it, I'm super cool yes, and even when you're overwhelmed I think I have done that and I can do it again.
Speaker 1:If I'm feeling overwhelmed and things might not at the moment be going as well as I wanted them to, you can overcome that because you've overcome it before, because you've got that list and you know you're that type of person that can just keep doing it and doing it again. Which actually leads me on to the next question about resilience that I wanted to ask you about, because that is a tough situation. Sometimes you have to keep picking yourself up and keep moving forward. So why do you think wellness and resilience are crucial for tech professionals?
Speaker 2:I think imposter syndrome definitely plugs into it. So it's an incredibly high-spaced industry. We keep talking about how rewarding it is to work in tech industry, but we don't very often talk about how challenging it is and how stressful it can be. And one element, especially when there is this concept that majority of female working in tech industry are product managers that are taking care of our teams. Yes, that's true, but very often it gets to the point when which I kind of described it you're being a servant leader of your team. So you're taking, you're putting the need of your team first. You're putting the need of your team first. And I spoke with multiple scrum masters in the past who were in their twenties and it happened very often that they were like, yes, you know, cause they're a bunch of tech guys and I don't actually understand what they're talking about. So, yeah, I'm just trying to make sure that they're happy, but that's kind of counterintuitive, because then we're allowing them to walk over our heads and building this resilience. So, first, understanding that, yes, tech industry is incredibly rewarding but it's also very challenging. So the most important thing is to take care of yourself, to be able to have a work-life balance.
Speaker 2:You've mentioned at the very beginning that things after pandemics become challenging and we are working from home. In the past it was like, ok, there's my home, there's my workspace, there is even a physical barrier between those two elements and now it's very comfortable to work from home. But then you get to the point like, oh, I'm actually sleeping and eating and working in the same space, which is incredibly challenging. So an element for building resilience is to be able to set up boundaries for oneself. Okay, I'm working from nine to five period and after five I'm not turning on my laptop. What helped me significantly when setting up those boundaries was like, okay, I'm closing my laptop at five and I'm going for a walk straight away. So it's like I need to change the environment in order not to constantly be in the same energy of the place where I woke up and I'm working and I'm eating. And then we are working and we are eating in front of our laptops, and we are watching in front of our laptops, and we are constantly interacting with this little black box instead of interacting with other humans. So it's very, very, very important.
Speaker 2:I cannot even express how important it is to be able to draw those boundaries between the work, the, and then, last but not least, when we are working, we are living with technology on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:So it's very challenging to have this barrier of okay, now I'm using my phone for work and I'm using it for leisure, right? So it's really it kind of comes back to the very beginning of our conversation how important it is to really get to know yourself and know what is important to you, because because only then one's going to be able to navigate those, um, those barriers and say, okay, I know that I worked 60 hours this week, so over a weekend I'm not touching my computer. But it requires almost like a internal mental strength to be able to say to to myself. No, I'm not touching my laptop, I'm. Now I'm tempted because there's this super cold car and there's this one bag and I want to sort it out. No, I'm not doing it over this weekend, I'm gonna take a look and sort it out on Monday. So it's yeah, this resilience is incredibly important because otherwise this super high-paced industry simply is gonna eat us alive yes, you're so.
Speaker 1:You're so right. I love everything that you just said because you, you it's so easy to let work bleed into all aspects of your life and I used to be very bad at that. Um. I used to work on some days to try and get ahead and think it would be easier for me on Monday, and actually all it turned out was I'd just do more on Monday and I just haven't had a proper rest over the weekend. And so now I set that boundary.
Speaker 1:I actually have set a personal boundary of I don't put Microsoft Teams on my phone just so I can't check messages for work unless it is working hours, because I feel like if there was a huge emergency message me, just WhatsApp me if you desperately need me for something, but otherwise I shouldn't be checking work things outside of work hours, and if that app isn't on my phone, then that kind of stops me from from doing that. Um. But obviously, if there's a fire, please call me. Um. But I love the fact that we have um something similar there, where you said you finish work and you go for a walk. Now I do exactly the same thing and I started that in Covid. You're so right to get out of the house because people joke that I don't keep a lot of food in my house and reason being is it forces me after work to go out and find something to eat if there isn't a lot here.
Speaker 1:So instead of me thinking, oh, I just cook something and sit down and I'll just leave my office and go and sit in another room, I have to physically leave the house every day. I would obviously starve, but it's got me in a habit of thinking I need to shut my laptop and I go out and I go and find something for dinner and then I come back and it just separates the two lives where I think in my mind, I've left work and I've gone to find dinner.
Speaker 2:Um, and those tiny little things they really do make a difference in in your life definitely and it's a matter of trial and error to see what's actually working for you, because for us it definitely works to go for a walk. For someone else it might be something else, but it's really this to build this curiosity towards learning what is that I actually enjoy doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, yes, you're right, it doesn't work for everybody, but just finding a little something that helps you to finish your day, whatever it may be, and just so you can draw a line under that day as well and enjoy your evening. On that note, I wanted to ask you about strategies or practices that have helped you to maintain your well-being while working in such a demanding field. You mentioned there, you know, a couple of things like taking a walk, demanding uh field. You mentioned there you know a couple of things like taking a walk. Is there anything else that you kind of use every day to try and maintain your own well-being?
Speaker 2:slow mornings, slow mornings, uh, slow mornings and slow mornings. Trying to reduce the phone time and screen time, uh, and also evening routines, so really leaving a phone in a different room and hour before bed, reading and writing, so not interacting with the, with the digital word. So I would say these are, like the, the main ones, and it took me. It's actually tricky, so it first, it took me a while to find this balance. What is that? Sorry, what is that is actually working for me, but then it's. There's also this trap of committing to it, um, almost like on autopilot, yeah, and it's really about ensuring that I'm in the moment. So when I'm sitting in the morning and drinking my tea or my coffee, I'm really sitting and drinking my coffee, not thinking about the phone that I don't have with me, and then, oh, is there a message that I should already respond? No, just really, and it's at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:It for me, it works in the morning and evenings, right, but it can be even this five days during lunch break, just going for a walk without checking a phone, just really finding a space and time to build, to create a gap in our minds.
Speaker 2:So when we are that, we are not thinking about work.
Speaker 2:So it's definitely work for me, and I do encourage everyone to to try even going for a walk in the forest or in the park for 10, 15 minutes and asking oneself how am I feeling afterwards?
Speaker 2:Because I think this is no matter what the activity is going to be and what's going to be the routine that we're going to create or what's going to be my what's going to be the activity. The most important element in my experience is that we check with oneself how are we feeling after that? So, because it's not about oh, I went to gym, or, and I went to gym and I went, and I go for a walk with my dog, and then I was swimming and I this, this is not, but everything was on such autopilot that I actually didn't immerse into it. And no matter what we're doing, it's it can be even like really five minutes, but really of just being in the present moment and actually tasting this cup of tea yes, I love that, and it's just the you're so right, the tiniest little tweaks can make such a difference to to your day.
Speaker 1:One thing I started doing, um, quite a while ago that I hadn't noticed was affecting me was you mentioned screen time.
Speaker 1:Obviously that's a big thing. People try and make sure they don't have screen time after a certain time. Or you said you know, that's great not keeping it in the bedroom because you're going to keep looking at that, um, and mine was turning the brightness down on my phone in the evening and I hadn't noticed the difference that that was making to me, because you have your brightness up all day and you're there and you're checking what you need. And then in the evening I just started to turn it down and put it to the night light and it kind of started to shut me down of an evening, ready for when I stopped completely using my phone that evening. It was kind of like I went into like a computer shutting down mode because I just turned that light down. And now I of an evening, I notice if I'm really sort of, you know, wired, I've realized it's because I haven't turned the nightlight on and turned the brightness down, um, and that the tiny things can really affect your well-being.
Speaker 1:By the time you go to bed, you are ready for bed exactly, exactly um, alex, you're a founder of a business, which in itself, um, is you know incredible what. I always find it amazing when people you know say they want to start a business, and that kind of crazy person. That is just so, you know, I'm going to do this and it's going to work, and that takes a heck of a lot to do. So you are a founder of a business and a business leader, so can you tell us a little bit about that and how do you foster a culture of wellness and resilience within your startups?
Speaker 2:oh, very good question and, yes, I fully agree, it's, it's a hell of a journey. It's, it's a hell of a journey and, uh, I admire yes and it's, but yes, yes and yes, and that's a very silly time. It's a very rewarding journey because it gives an opportunity to anyone who embarked on such an adventure to learn a lot about oneself. Um, it's. I think I like with every um exceptional moment when there is a struggle, like marathon runners and people who are crossing Atlantic and the boat, there are moments of difficulties and it turns out that during those moments we learn a lot about ourselves. So it's a similar thing with startups.
Speaker 2:I have a feeling like it works this way and I would say the most important thing are people around you when embarking on this journey. So there's going to be different things like and the situation is going to change and landscape is going to change and literally everything can change. But the team is the most important element the trust of the team members, ability to talk about the most difficult elements, moments when you are able to resolve a quarrel. It's very, very, very. I cannot even stress out how important it is the team, because then, if you're going to change a product and you're not going to have a market fit or you're going to be struggling with the investors. As long as you've got this group of trusted advisors, your team, that's the most important element, but then there's also the resilience and wellness. So and that's the tricky element, especially when it comes to startup endeavors, because the founders tend to be so passionate about it and we hear the stories about how many hours they've been working and they've been coding in their in parents garage all nights and all days and, yes, amazing, great. But I think we need to encourage this culture of having exceptional results, but not on the account of destroying one's health, and because we can have extraordinary results, but what does it give us if afterwards, we cannot enjoy them with our family because they're not talking to us, because we've been working so hard for so many years? We actually don't have friends because all of them moved or changed or now have families and children, and we don't because we've been working. Or the worst case scenario is that actually, we cannot enjoy our success because we need been working, or the worst case scenario is that actually, we cannot enjoy our success because we need to resolve our health problems, um, and physically we are not able to enjoy those moments because we are in constant pain or there's some kind of sickness that we are needs need to overcome.
Speaker 2:So, uh, with with our team. Uh, there's definitely a policy of not contacting each other during the weekends, if there is an emergency, of course, but we've got the WhatsApp group, but it's like, really, for the biggest possible emergencies, we are trying not to contact each other in the evenings and we are taking, as a team, it's almost like company holidays. So from 23rd of December to 3rd of January, we are not talking to each other. Of course, we can talk to each other.
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny because, from one hand, you said, yes, we are friends, so we will be talking all the time, but then, when you start talking, we're talking mostly about work, because this is what we are passionate about. So we're trying to reduce the context only for sake of our mental well-being. And what happens and it happens every single time that after the break, we are actually coming together and like, oh, I actually have this idea and I thought about this and we are able to clarify so many elements, because when you're living from day to day and meeting, meeting and task from a task, there's no space for reflection and it's very, very important to almost schedule the work time and the holiday time yes, and so important as well, that you yourself set that example, because you, as a founder, you'll be feeling you know this, this is my baby and I'm going to protect it and and I expect everybody else to live and breathe what is happening here.
Speaker 1:But if you're setting that boundary for everybody and you're saying, don't contact each other at the weekend or when you're actually on a break, don't contact each other, and that you're not bleeding into that as well and saying, well, you know, I meant that for all of you, but actually I'm going to message you this evening because it's my company, you're setting a good example for everybody to just be able to stop and shut off, because sometimes, especially with a founder, they, they will be thinking, yeah, but I, you know you yourself might be working well into the evening, um, because it's it's your baby and and and it's your company and you want to make a success of it.
Speaker 1:But sometimes, to put that on your team, you know that's, that's not going to go down. Well, your team is not going to feel, um, healthy and and like they want to move forward and have ideas, um, so it's such good advice to to have that and to make sure that that trickles throughout your entire team and you must have a team then that can, as you you said, come back and have ideas and well, like they've had that space. So, yeah, definitely good advice.
Speaker 2:There is one last thing in this regard is I've learned actually very early that no one ever is going to care about my baby as me, and I cannot expect them to. So I cannot expect others to work as hard as I'm working, yeah, period, and then coming up with this expectation, it just makes everything easier because I know that, okay, I cannot expect them to give more than I'm giving.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, just manage expectations and then everything starts to flow more naturally, I guess yes exactly yes that, that expectation of you're absolutely right, um, and then then they can have that time. You know you're still working, um, and doing what you need to do, but you're right, sometimes it is that expectation of um. It's not getting angry with people and thinking why would I expect them to to work like that? Um, you're absolutely right. Um, we're nearly out of time and I wanted to ask you, I wanted to pick your brains about one last thing, um, if you could give one piece of advice to somebody just starting out in the tech industry, what would that be about? Maintaining wellness? How do you also, I suppose, founding a company as well, not just working in the tech industry Do you have any advice about? How on earth do you maintain wellness?
Speaker 2:Work on your boundaries, really work on your boundaries, really work on your boundaries, and I mean especially with yourself, almost like force yourself to know where to stop. And I think, rephrasing it a little bit, is learning where to stop, because it's very difficult, especially when you're a founder and you're like oh, I know it's not working, but I'm going to try one more time. And oh, this bag is not working, but I'm going to try one more time. I'm going to try one more time. Enough is enough. And sometimes done is better than perfect. So I mean, in most cases, done is better than perfect. So I mean, in most cases, done is better than perfect. So, yeah, just learn when to stop, and by learn, I mean learn to listen to yourself. So when your body tells you to stop, stop, don't force yourself to, don't push yourself too hard.
Speaker 1:yeah, I love the fact. You said, though, as well, that that it's something that you learn. It's not something that immediately you know anything. I'm going to set my boundaries today, and that is going to be it's actually something that you learn, and and it ties back to everything you said today about just being more conscious about how you feel, about the things that you're doing, the decisions that you're making, and perhaps, if you don't feel great about something that you've done that day, you know then you've overstepped your own boundary, or somebody has, and that is a learned feeling that you, you grow and learn about yourself over time.
Speaker 1:It's not something that you just discover that day and everything. Everything is just fine then, which is what is so great as well about True Me that it is a program that you work through and it is something that you do slowly and that you can learn about yourself. It's not something that you just do and it's some magical switch that just clicks on inside of you. Uh, it is over, um, a period of time that you can drink that in and learn a lot about yourself. Um, so we will add, uh, the link to that in the post for this podcast today, um, but we are already out of time, alex um, I could keep talking to you all afternoon about wellness. Our community will uh, no doubt really um enjoy this episode and uh really enjoy um using true me. So thank you so much, alex, for coming on having a chat with us today. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you, and we'll have to have you back at some point to tell us how you're getting on with true me as well thank you, thank you and thank you.
Speaker 2:It was a pleasure talking to you and uh. Yeah, if you guys have any questions, reach out to me. Uh, I'm more than happy to uh to answer any questions.
Speaker 1:So again, thank you, thank you so much and, to everybody listening as always, thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
