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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Mentoring at Checkatrade: Empowering Growth and Support
Join us for an insightful episode as we delve into the world of mentoring at Checkatrade. Our guests, Jess and Rossana, bring a unique perspective to the table: mentor and mentee. Jess, an experienced figure at Checkatrade, serves as Rossana’s mentor, guiding her through professional growth and development. Together, they discuss the inner workings of the mentoring scheme at Checkatrade, shedding light on how mentorship fosters learning and collaboration within the organisation.
Tune in as they share their journey, touching upon the support systems in place, the role of Women in Trades (WIT) initiatives, and the impact of mentorship on personal and career development.
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Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in Again. I am Kayleigh Batesman, the Content Director at she Can Code, and today we are discussing mentoring at Checker Trade empowering growth and support. I'm lucky enough to have two ladies from Checker Trade with me today, and it's always a pleasure to chat with the ladies who are behind Checker Trade, because I've got the amazing Jess and Rosanna with me to bring their unique perspectives to the table of both mentor and mentee. Welcome, ladies. Thank you so much for joining us on Spilling the Tea. Hiya, Hi, it's a pleasure to have you both. Can we kick off with a bit of background from each of you, please, just to set the scene for our ladies? Jess, shall we start with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So I'm an engineering manager, obviously, working at Checker Trade. I've been at Checker Trade for about two years now. Before I was an engineering manager I was a software engineer for about five, six years or so and I've always been in tech. How I got into tech? So I took quite a traditional route of doing computer science in university, came out of computer science, did like a few work placements in tech and IT support roles until I sort of fell into engineering, realized I enjoy doing that so much, and then I kind of went on to preferring the management side of things and leading the teams and leading the projects, and then that's when I decided to go into engineering management.
Speaker 1:Amazing yeah, we always love it on here when people have a mixture of backgrounds as well. Some plan to go into tech, some fall into tech, and you worked your way up all the way into management. I have a curiosity about you going into management.
Speaker 2:Did you reach that point where you were kind of like you reached that point in your career where you go I either have to look after people or I'm going to remain siloed, or what was that like for you when you kind of realized that you know, when I was a software engineer, I was always, I guess, like a more outgoing person, um, within the teams I was in, always kind of trying to lead more of the technical refinements or come up with some funky ways of you know know, having the teams do stuff or have more fun with projects.
Speaker 2:So I thought, oh, you know, let me look into what are the next potential steps, like what's more of a people facing role, where I actually get to speak to people every day and do the stuff that I really like doing.
Speaker 2:So that's when I kind of looked more into engineering management and what that entailed. And then when I kind of found, okay, well, there's a lot of different types of engineering management roles and I realized I did want to be more people-focused, that's when I just, I guess I started actually actively looking for engineering management roles to try and find the right dynamic for me. And then when I found that one, I, yeah, that's when I fully went into it, thinking, you, you know what, I'll see how it goes for six months or so and then, if I don't like it, I'll switch back to software engineering. But yeah, I sort of tried out engineering management and then sort of decided great, you know, I'm so happy I went into it and that was just you know what it was meant to be really, and I've enjoyed it ever since and haven't looked back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Haven't looked back. That's nice to hear Rosanna yourself. What about you? Can you tell us a little bit about you and your background?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm an associate software engineer and I joined Checker Trade a year ago and I'm a career switcher. Before I was a project manager, a manager in advertising, and I decided that I wanted something more challenging. And yeah, here I am.
Speaker 1:Boy, and are you? Uh, what made you switch careers? Was there somebody that inspired you at the time? Or, um wait, did you see somebody else doing it? Or you just thought you know what I'm just?
Speaker 3:I just want a new challenge so I want a new challenge and my job was a little bit repetitive and I knew that being a software engineer was very challenging you went into the right right career. I just decided to go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, like Jess, having a look back incredible Ladies. We have a lot to cover. Today we're going to talk about mentoring and we're lucky enough to have a mentor and a mentee, so we can hear both perspectives. Can we kick off our discussion with a walkthrough on how the mentoring scheme at Checker Trade is structured and what makes it unique compared to other mentoring programmes?
Speaker 2:We actually have quite a few different mentoring things going on at Checker Trade. So we have our main Checker Trade mentoring scheme, so that's a wider company mentoring scheme, and I think the really cool thing about this so I've been part of this for probably the past year or so now is you actually connect with other individuals who aren't necessarily in your department sales more of a sales role but had similar aspirations as in was in her role um, you know, getting to that top level and wanted to progress more into management, and I think it was just so nice to have that connection and that outside perspective of you know, not necessarily someone in engineering, but someone who you can help with their career path overall, um, and it just shows like you know, no matter what department you're in, what role you're doing, you can still relate to one, one another and build those relationships. And sometimes when you don't exactly understand someone's role and so much on what they do day to day, it helps you build more of a connection because you're really getting to know that person on a on a different level, understanding their day-to-day, understanding what they do, where they want to be, without actually having much background context on that at all. Um, and then I guess the other side of mentoring at checker trade would be the I guess more of the women in tech mentoring. So we've got quite a good women in tech forum at checker trade.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of community meetups and things like that and from that you kind of get to meet a lot of new faces, people who join the company who may not necessarily meet day to day because obviously engineering is such a wide, you know big organization and there's so many people joining engineering every day, to be honest.
Speaker 2:So by having those forums you kind of get to meet new faces and meet new people and people kind of reach out to each other because it's such a trusted forum. So a lot of my mentees from the women in tech side have just been people who have, you know, met through the forum and then reached out to me and said you said, you know, hey, do you have some time to mentor me for a bit or chat to me or whatever it is. So yeah, I think it's just the openness of having different ways to join mentoring programs and not just having one type of mentoring scheme but having like different types of mentoring schemes, I think that's what makes it really unique, to be honest yeah, that's so interesting that you get to um speak with other ladies in other departments, because you must get so much back from that as well.
Speaker 1:You're not just the mentee, but you must learn so much about other departments, how they're doing things and how those ladies are thinking yeah, it can teach you so much.
Speaker 2:yeah, because obviously people in engineering work completely different to people in sales and sometimes you can just learn different skills from each other because you know like, yeah, just having that dynamic is really good from learning from each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, rosanna. Would you agree with that? That having all of the different types of ways that Checker Trade works in terms of mentoring, that that's great, that you can just kind of pick and choose where you find a mentor as well, and if that's not working out as well, I suppose that's also another thing we find with our own mentoring program. Sometimes you, you match and then you go. Actually that's not for me, me, but you can find people in lots of different avenues by the sounds of it yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm actually very lucky because I'm part of two different types of mentoring and which are like, which are very like important as an associate uh. The first one is like a technical mentoring with the team. Uh, so I'm lucky to have weekly meetings to improve my technical skills or pairing, which is very important as well. Um, we can ask a question to each other and the mentor can understand, uh your level in order to fill the gaps, but, um, me, as a mentee, I'm able to learn new concepts or improve them. And the second one is a more like um high level mentoring, uh, which is a personal growth mentoring with Jess. Uh, my previous career, I've never had a mentor, so this is absolutely new to me and thanks to Jess, I'm able now to like track my goals.
Speaker 1:Actually being able to track your goals. How useful. Because if you come out the other side of a mentoring partnership and you haven't tracked your goals, let alone achieved your goals, you're going to come out feeling like I don't want to do that again or actually that wasn't worth my while. And to be able to do that and to actually see progress that's being made, instead of just a relationship where you might meet and have a cup of coffee every now and then, to be actually to to, to track the impact that you're both having on each other um, really useful yes, it is, it is uh.
Speaker 3:Now I can definitely look back like just say and say, oh wow, this is a big improvement yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people out there they really want to do it and they really want to get involved in in some way. Um, and there's always that awkwardness as to how much time will it take up, will I actually find it useful, and how do I um move forward and do this again with somebody else, or what improvements could I make if I did this with somebody else. So, having some kind of structure or different types of programs as well, that you can choose from that kind of suit you and what you want to do, not everything is solved with just one, one internal program, and we always say on this podcast not everything is solved with one women in tech slack group. It's a lot more than just a slack group. Um, there's there's so many layers to it. And how did you both approach becoming a mentor mentee? How, how did that unfold? How did you approach that? Um, jess, do you want to tell us a bit about how you approach becoming a mentor?
Speaker 2:so I think becoming a mentor has always been something really, really important to me. Growing up through my tech career myself, I've always been lucky to have really great mentors who, like Rosanna, have been there for different things. So I've had technical mentors who have helped me progress my technical skills and helped me get into the position I was in, software engineering, where I felt confident and where I felt, like you know, I was happy and I was progressing and really doing good in my role. And then I've had more of the high level mentors, which really helped with my personal growth, my confidence and career growth. And then, as I sort of got into engineering management, that's when I decided that I wanted to get more into mentoring, because it's actually people don't realize but it's so different, even as a line manager. It's very different from having just direct reports in your team just because you're managing people in your team. Yes, you are mentoring them as well, but actually getting into a proper mentor mentee scheme, it's just something so different.
Speaker 2:Um. So yeah, as as I kind of mentioned um before, I kind of had two ways of meeting um mentees, so I got into it. I guess the easiest way was joining the checker trade mentoring scheme where you know anyone can work with anyone in a different department, maybe on similar roles, and you actually get specifically matched to someone. Um, so it's a great kind of matchmaking process again. Um, maybe people who have similar aspirations to be at a higher level or moving at a similar pace to you or whatever it is. Um, you get kind of matched on those criterias and different traits and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And then the other side of obviously meeting a mentee so how I met rosanna and you know maybe some and then the other side of obviously meeting a mentee so how I met Rosanna and you know maybe some others in the women in tech community was just via forum.
Speaker 2:Like having such a good women in tech community, having such a good forum, where everyone in that forum sort of trusts each other, feels that they can reach out to one another and everyone is always very open and, you know, actually offers their help out. So I feel like anyone in that forum could go to anyone at all who they see, you know, as someone who could help them or, um, mentor them and just just ask them and feel comfortable to say, hey, do you want to be a um, do you want to be my mentor, and I think that's how, again, a lot of people have reached out to their mentors as well and, again, just putting yourself out there to say you know, I'm happy to do it to be a mentor. If anyone wants to talk to me, chat to me, then just be open about it and put it out there that you are happy to be a mentor and you have time for people and you have time for people.
Speaker 1:That's incredible Because I know, obviously, where Commission Can Code that Checker Trade does so much around women in tech and their women in tech group and forum too. The fact that it's not an overnight fix and it's not. You can't come up with a women in tech forum that is that open and supportive towards each other overnight and it's something that has really taken time to bring together. That now that you are able to reach out to each other and support each other in that way and to to to help each other, mentor and mentee is just something that has, as I said, doesn't happen overnight. Doesn't happen overnight um, but is is a real testament to what has happened within that forum and how um that people try to reach out to people on linkedin and say, hey, will you be my mentor? And a lot of the times you'll get rejections and a lot of people ghosting you because nobody wants to step forward and help or they don't know like time limits or what it actually means for them. But to have a platform where people can do that within Checker Trade must be so useful for the employees within there.
Speaker 1:Rosanna yourself, how did you approach becoming a mentee? Did you just reach out. What happened there? Did you feel like you could reach out? I suppose this is the first question.
Speaker 3:How welcome did you feel I just reached out to Jess. From the beginning I saw Jess as a role model due to her confidence and I was sure that she started as an associate an associate um and I had like a similar experience to mine and um. I also knew Jess to like the different podcasts that she has done, including the one that she can coach, so I was like why not just let's, let's reach out and let's see?
Speaker 1:yes, she's the one at checker trade that you want to nail down and say hey, could you please support me with something? Um, yeah, we love having jess on as a guest on on this podcast. Um, can I ask you a little bit about the relationship between yourselves as well, just to put this on the spot? Um, but how would you describe the dynamic between you as mentor and mentee? What, what do you think makes this relationship successful?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I think we we um again, because we have such similar experiences, we were able to just align straight away and build such a good and close relationship. Um, I obviously started off as an associate engineer as well and a lot of the times when Rosanna and I talk about experiences, we often relate back to you know, like even experiences that I've had and how I felt and how I can relate to how Rosanna feels or kind of the experience she's going through. And I think that's really important in a mentor-mentee relationship is to have that trust and to have that understanding. So you know you're actually talking to someone who can guide you through situations and career growth and you know, actually understand exactly what you're going through. So I think that has really really helped us build such a successful relationship, just that relating to one another.
Speaker 2:And I think the second part of that is also not being in the same team. So, although we're both in engineering, the fact we are in completely different teams again helps us both have that outside perspective. Like you know, I don't really know anything that goes on in Rosanna's team aside from what she tells me, so there's no sort of bias in that relationship or anything like that. So again you've got like a really good connection built on trust and learning about you know travel's experiences and what they're doing day to day and not just being with them every single day, also having that set time that you put apart for specific mentoring and mentee sessions.
Speaker 1:That's such an important point that you are on different teams as well and how helpful that is, because instead of having that, you're involved in the day-to-day of knowing what each other's teams actually do and if a challenge comes up, you're almost thinking well, you know, I kind of know what's going on there, you're almost above everything and can just see the challenge for what it is, instead of sometimes the dynamic of a team and you kind of get.
Speaker 1:You get very bogged down sometimes in day to day, especially if there's challenges going on, and to have somebody that is is up above all of that I can just see it from like a bird's eye view. To kind of give you some clarity and some direction is so valuable to to have that on different teams and to be able to empathise with Rosanna and her experience as well and what she might be feeling. Rosanna, how would you describe the dynamic between you both? Obviously, you knew Jess was going to be a great mentor and that's why you went for her. But what do you think makes the relationship successful between you both?
Speaker 3:So, like Jess mentioned, we had like similar experiences and I understood straight away that she was the right person, that she could understand me and advise me at the same time, and like we connected straight away and I think it is really important to have that kind of open relationship like just say what, you can trust each other. And I feel like that when we have like our meetings, I can just say like everything and she has just the right advice every time.
Speaker 1:So it's like a therapy session as well, somebody that you can trust and say this is happening. I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with it, but that's that's. It just super important to have somebody in the workplace that you can trust and go to for advice and to know that as well that you can. You can vent if you need to and then figure out how you're going to move forward with challenges and your own goals as well your own career goals how you're going to reach that. Jess, you mentioned a little bit about Rosanna and obviously being able to see things from her perspective and, because you came from a similar route, and being able to connect with her own experiences. But can you share a little bit about your journey and experience with mentoring at Checker Trade and what motivated you in the first place to become a mentor?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think in Checker Trade, as I kind of mentioned, we have a lot of new joiners. We have a lot of people coming to the business of different levels, and one of my biggest motivations when I actually joined Chaka Trade back two years ago was hiring in more associates. So at that time I kind of ran a program to get some more associates into Chaka Trade, which we successfully did, and that really made me want to, you know, get into mentoring and make sure we had some sort of good mentors in place, because you know that's such an important part of letting in junior talent is you can't just let people, you know, sit there by themselves and work out for themselves. The only way you're going to make successful engineers or, you know, any position is by having good mentors. So it was always really important to me to make sure that I'm helping with that as well. I think as well.
Speaker 2:You know, over my career I've had many good experiences and also many struggles as well. So going through, you know, being an associate myself, moving up through mid-level, moving up into more of a management role, I face so many struggles that, honestly, if I didn't have a mentor, I don't know what I would have done, or how I would have even managed to get out of some of those situations or progress or continue building my confidence, my confidence. So you know it's something very close to my heart that you know I want to be able to also help people who are going through the same kind of process or, you know, trying to work their way up, have that motivation maybe don't know, um, quite how to get there, or, just, you know, need that little bit of guidance, to be there to support them, just how I was supported by my mentors back in the day as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're so right, especially when you're trying to move through the ranks or challenges are coming up at work day to day and just for somebody else to tell you you know that's okay, or I've been through that, and instead of you, that imposter syndrome kicks in and you're starting to go, I'm going to get found out. People are going to know and you're, you're, um. Instead of you, that imposter syndrome kicks in and you're starting to go, I'm gonna get found out. People are gonna know and they're gonna know that I can't do this.
Speaker 1:Everybody's having that feeling as they move through their career, and so to have somebody else that has been through it, um is really valuable to to have that and to to want to give back and know that as well, that other people are feeling the same thing that you were feeling. Um is is brilliant to to to be able to do that um, what about you on on that front? Because, um, you must get so much back from from being a mentor as well. So how has mentoring, rosanna, impacted your own professional growth, and have there been any unexpected lessons or insights that you've gained from the experience in?
Speaker 2:any kind of shock to you yeah, do you know, honestly, I think it teaches you so much like having a mentee, especially with Rosanna.
Speaker 2:Um, you know she's she's such a great mentee because she's always so open, she really trusts me and she's really honest and it's taught me how much to you know how to be able to listen better and give advice better and be constructive as well.
Speaker 2:I think one of the biggest things, or the biggest struggles that a lot of people find as managers as well, is how to give like constructive feedback and, you know, like constructive advice as well. So, just by having that kind of bond, that relationship of again someone who's not necessarily in my team but someone who really trusts me and seeks my advice, it has really taught me to you know how to give advice in better ways and you know, try all different methods of giving feedback and giving advice and writing goals and, you know, helping with that career progression. So, yes, it's honestly taught me so much and it's all thanks honestly, rosanna, being such a open and honest mentee as well, because that's what really helps me learn and helps me be able to give, you know, the best advice that I can give as well yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yes, such good advice as well, with constructive uh feedback and and when you deliver that um. We had a discussion on here recently about that, the timing of feedback. Sometimes, um, it can make such a difference as a manager and how to deliver it and when to deliver it. Um is is quite a skill to being able to um practice that as well and and and get used to that. Um is is really valuable as as a mentor. Um, and taking that from from your relationship with your mentee, rosanna, I want to ask you a little bit about your experience as well as as a mentee under Jess's guidance. How has it shaped your career at CheckerTrade?
Speaker 3:Yes. So I would like to go back a little bit to when I asked Jess to be my mentor and Jess sent me an email with a squat analysis and I was like what's this? So in this squat analysis, we talked about the short term and long term goals, term and long-term goals uh, many expectations and what I'm looking, um about. Like what, uh, am I looking to get out of this mentoring and any current goals? Or like motivations that I have, and therefore, uh, after we had this uh conversation, we decided which ones were like the goals that I was working towards and highlighting as well the achievements. Resilience is one of those that I have improved a lot, but is a work in progress. I have improved a lot, but it's a work in progress and at this time, thanks to the technical mentor and mentors, my technical skills have progressed a lot in one year time.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it is a fantastic experience, yeah, yeah, and your experience with Jess as well, as you said, must really help with your building that resilience throughout your career. We do all have those when challenges come up. We all have those moments where we're like, should should I go? And that's that's a feeling that I think a lot of us have had. Where we've gone, should I just leave this job? Perhaps it's not for me, and it's such a shame when people have that.
Speaker 1:When challenges arise, um, and it's how to good companies know how to, you know work people through those feelings and to say, um, you know, you, it's just natural to have those feelings at work and here's how we're going to work through this challenge and, like you said, um, having some structure as well. So you feel like you're really achieving something in your relationship with Jess and working through that, instead of just a chat and a coffee every now and then. You really do feel like she's helping you to progress, to reach your next level. On that note, what are some of the most valuable lessons or skills that you've learned from?
Speaker 3:Jess. So, as I mentioned before, confidence, which comes from experience, but at the same time, you have to work on it and motivation, jess told me from the beginning always look back at your improvements instead of just saying I don't know this concept, and always celebrate your achievements, which is very important.
Speaker 1:sometimes we just don't look at those achievements, but yeah, it's getting much better yeah, that's such good advice, just brilliant advice always celebrate your achievements, because you're right, we do focus on uh, the like we've said throughout this the challenges that happen and the things that come up and how we get through them, and and forget to look back and think you know what this is, how we move through things and this is how we grew um as a company and how I grew professionally as well throughout the year.
Speaker 1:And I've always felt as well that if you're at the wrong company and you get to the end of the year and you feel like you haven't actually achieved anything and you look back and you think, actually I just done a lot of meetings this year and didn't really progress and move through anything and I don't feel like I actually achieved anything, then you know you're at the wrong company and you want to be somewhere where you're really progressing and feeling like you're really making an impact as a company as well as professionally as well, and being in a mentor-mentee relationship like yours means, you know, like you said, you can look back and say, actually, look at all the things that we did and let's make sure that we celebrate those uh along the way, because it just just it's like, as you said, that motivation. It takes you into next year as well, into thinking, yeah, we did a really great job this year and this is how we did it, and then motivated for the next year and all the things that you will achieve, um, with with the help of jess, uh, along the way. Um, ladies, we're nearly out of time and um, I wanted to ask you one quick question, to both of you. Um, what advice would you give to someone considering becoming a mentor or a mentee at Checker Trade?
Speaker 2:I think the best advice I can say is just go for it.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's anything you wouldn't gain out of becoming a mentee or becoming a mentor. Like I said, you just learn so many invaluable skills from each other from both sides so many invaluable skills from each other from both sides. It's only going to improve you in terms of your career and your progression. As well as that, give you someone to talk to and have guidance from or give guidance to, and you know it's someone who's also not your line manager. So, having someone there who you can talk to about anything and share experience line manager so having someone there who you can talk to about anything and share experience again, whether you're the mentor or the mentee, it's just so useful having that open dynamic with someone you can trust who's again not in your team, um, who can guide you, you know, to different paths and things you wouldn't usually get from your line manager or, you know, necessarily talk about with your direct report cyber. So, yeah, just go for it, because there's so many amazing benefits from it.
Speaker 1:It sounds like as well within the Women in Tech Forum at Checker Trade. It's open enough as well that if you find you match with somebody and then it's not quite working or your schedules don't quite work, it sounds like it's very open that you can just say, hey, actually I know somebody else that might be able to help you, or, um, to to open the floor to to find the right match. It sounds very, um, supportive in that sense. It's almost not, you know, kind of oh gosh, that didn't work out. You know how can somebody else help you. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rosanna yourself any advice, um, for somebody else. Help you. Yeah, 100% yeah, Rosanna yourself. Any advice for somebody else that's considering becoming a mentee at Checker Trade?
Speaker 3:Well, I will say that it's definitely like a valuable experience and I would recommend it to everyone, especially to those people who are starting their career in tech. Mentors will definitely shape your career path, so you have nothing to lose, just go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially as a career switcher as well. You know that must have been when you landed at Checker Trade. You must have thought, oh, thank goodness, it's not just you trying to learn your way through, but there's a lot of support there for you, because sometimes in career switches it's a strange experience in the sense that you are experienced in the workplace but you're not necessarily experienced in tech, so finding some support along the way to help you. You must have got there and thought, oh, thank goodness, because I kind of know all about the workplace and you know the politics that comes with falling into work for the first time. But, um, working through the ranks and a career in tech, at least there's been, you know, support along the way from lots of different channels as well. Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:Ladies, I could keep talking to you about mentoring. All day is something that is very close to our heart. Actually can code um, because we have our own mentoring program as well and we it was started with exactly the same reasons as to why, um, you'd have your mentoring programs to be able to match people and who want to help you and support each other. So it's been an absolute pleasure to hear from both of you today about being a mentor and a mentee, and thank you so much for joining us, ladies.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you Everybody listening as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
