SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Power Up Awards 2024: Empowering Tomorrow's Tech Leaders: Celebrating Women in Tech with Shell
In this episode, we delve into the inspiring realm of women in tech with our Power Up Awards 2024 headline sponsor, Shell, as they share their insights on why they've chosen to champion SheCanCode’s awards.
Join us as we explore the significance of highlighting undiscovered women in tech who are making remarkable contributions to the industry. From groundbreaking innovations to fostering diversity and inclusion, these women are shaping the future of technology.
Learn why Shell is spotlighting the next generation of tech leaders. Tune in to discover the stories behind the awards and the ongoing mission to empower women in the tech sector.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in Again. I am Technology Manager for Crude and Products at Shell with me today and we're going to discuss this a little bit further. Welcome, kat. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure to have you on here. We have a lot of really exciting things to unpack about the award series this year and your involvement, but we'd love to kick off with a little bit about you, if that's okay. To hear a little bit about you, your background, how you got into tech and how you ended up in your role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'd love to. So, as you said, I'm the IT manager for Cruden Products, which is for our commodities trading business that we have within Shell. I've been with Shell now for about nine years I actually had to look it up just to double check overall and I've always been in IT and pretty much always in the energy industry as well. But I did start out as a graduate for a global management consultancy, which is how I fell into technology.
Speaker 2:I actually studied chemistry as my degree and in my fine well, my third year of chemistry I did a placement year and I worked for a pharmaceutical company and I loved chemistry and I loved organic chemistry, but you didn't really get to engage a lot with people, and so when I was looking for my first job overall, I was, you know know, one of my roommates was applying for one of these big companies, so I thought I'd go along and that was sort of the start of it. But it was a big management consultancy and I enjoyed the aspect of being able to work with people and, as I've gone through the course of my career, it's both the best thing and most and the most challenging aspect to my job overall is working with the stakeholders and with the teams that come with it. I do love it, but it is also the most challenging element that comes along as we go.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. It's always so interesting to hear when our ladies come from STEM backgrounds and kind of what inspired you to do that. Was there an influence from home, or were you just one of those children that just love sciences and that's kind of the direction that you went in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a good question. So I was definitely one of those kids that leaned more heavily towards the maths and the sciences overall. And I've got a sister, so my dad had two daughters and he was one of those dads that never really set any limits on us. We were very lucky from that point of view. I never really contemplated being told what I could or could not do. He was always very encouraging and when I look back now and I listen to some of the stories out there as well, it is obviously very different for some other people and he always really strongly encouraged me. Different for some other people, um, and he always really strongly encouraged me.
Speaker 2:And at the time, um, it was also a bit of an advantage being female going into science, because obviously the numbers are so low and they're still not great um, but I thought it would give me more of an opportunity to kind of get into university and by following that pathway as well. So, in a sort of roundabout way, um, it's sort of um. You know, I thought it would benefit me um, overall, but I did always enjoy um the sciences um side of things. My maths was always a bit dodgy, particularly when you get into physical chemistry, but um up until that point I enjoyed it yeah, yeah, and you made it all the way into Shell and you've been there nine years.
Speaker 1:That's quite a lot. Nowadays you hear people you know jumping around every couple of years. Nine years is you know. They must be doing something right at Shell to keep you from the new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we like to think so.
Speaker 2:I think the benefit of a company like Shell is it's got so much to offer, even within technology.
Speaker 2:So I've always been in IT, but you've got a range of different businesses that we really work for. Because if you look at the size and the scale of a company like Shell, there really is a lot of breadth to there so you can move around, and during my time I've worked across downstream and our corporate functions, which is where all the finance and the tax parts of the business sit, as well as in enterprise-wide roles as well, going across the entire breadth of the company, which is just fascinating and it's one of the challenges of the role, because it's so broad, because we do so much, but you really do get to see the scale of what we deliver. So I think it's just because it does offer so much in terms of career growth and opportunities, but also I do like to think of it as quite a great company to work for in terms of the benefits and its approach to how it does things like DE&I overall, to make it a good place to work.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. I had a similar conversation with a lady recently about that, about how some companies manage to retain staff, and you're right with the options there. It means that you can stay within the company but still move around, because people move, they want to move, they want to try something new and progress. But some companies manage to hold on to staff and say, if you stay within our company, you can move around, try something new Because just good companies know that they need to keep hold of good talent, so they're very, very good at that, compared to other companies that might have a very high turnover and just not many options to progress. I suppose, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:We have a lot to discuss today because we're going to talk about related to that. One of the things that Shell is doing this year is sponsoring the Power Up Awards with she Can Code, and related to what you were just saying there about Shell being a very supportive company, especially around diversity and inclusion. We'd love to hear a little bit about why Shell decided to headline sponsor the awards, obviously from she Can Code Style. We're extremely excited about that. So can we kick off with what motivated Shell to become the headline sponsor for the Power Up Awards 2024, specifically focusing on women in tech.
Speaker 2:So I think at Shell, we recognise that the Power Up Awards is really a great new platform to help celebrate the achievements of women in technology. I think it really does align quite closely to our commitment to support and empower the next generation of female leaders, particularly given we're talking about technology, which is also my area as well, if you think about our ambition and Shell to become a net zero ambition, net zero emissions business by 2050. Technology really is a critical enabler for that, and we do believe quite firmly that we do need to have a diverse and representative workforce to enable us to lead through that change. So platforms like the Power Up Awards just give us a really unique opportunity for us within Shell to actually engage directly with some of the great talent that you've been identifying within the she Can Code community as well. So it's just a really great opportunity for us to help celebrate and support the talent that we have within this community.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and I mean obviously. I'm preaching to the converted where you obviously get that.
Speaker 1:You know, as you said, you need a diverse workforce to succeed and obviously that is something that we advocate for at she Can Code and the partners that we work with. We love it when they just really get that and just know that it's not something that is built overnight and it's something that is, you know, very much in your DNA and how you retain stuff. You're a brilliant example of that and you've been there nine years, um, so, yeah, some companies, um, they just really live and breathe that and being part of the um power up awards is obviously, you know, one aspect of what you're doing as a company, um, but uh, we completely agree at she Can Code that it's you know. You, you can't be successful without a diverse workforce. Definitely, how does Shell believe highlighting and supporting women in tech can contribute to the advancement of the industry?
Speaker 2:So I really do believe having visible role models and sharing those success stories is incredibly important to help inspire the next generation and sharing those success stories is incredibly important to help inspire the next generation.
Speaker 2:I can really remember early on in my career sitting in the audience and looking at the stage of leaders at the time and there wasn't quite as much female representation on that stage but there was some and just really thinking I can't really see how I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:It didn't really sort of you know, some of the choices that they had made in order to get to that position.
Speaker 2:You know I can certainly celebrate that success, but I didn't really recognise me in it and I can just really remember because it's still a, you know, a memory that stays with me today and I've been working for quite some time now and that it's just not not a way that I could see me doing it.
Speaker 2:And I just think that when I was looking at some of the bios of the shortlisted females that you have identified, they're really just incredibly inspiring and I do really reflect on the hard work that it would have taken for those individuals to kind of get to this point in their career and the journeys that they would have taken, because it won't just be all high, it will also have some of the lows, and I think it is in sharing those stories that you can really inspire and empower others, because they can see the different paths to how they might approach things. That will hopefully enable others to want to follow in those footsteps. So I think it's just incredibly important that we do things like this to help others see how they might progress through, and I think it's one of the wonderful things that we do have within the women in technology community is that people are very open to sharing their stories and enabling others to kind of follow in their footsteps that way.
Speaker 1:Um, you mentioned in the shortlist you're absolutely right the ladies in there. We made a conscious effort as well of having ladies at different levels, because it's so interesting to hear that you sat looking up at a stage thinking how do I relate to that? I did exactly the same thing and I think there are a lot of women in tech who find themselves at an event thinking I can't relate to that in some way. Either I'm not represented on that stage or those ladies sometimes are so senior that you just cannot relate to how you're going to get to that level. So we deliberately try to have categories and ladies that are highlighted at different stages in their career so, like, like you said, you have those role models at all stages of the career, because it is very hard.
Speaker 1:if you're looking at, you know a big CTO and you're thinking, well, that's great, but you know she's finally visible now. She's very successful. How do you relate to that you?
Speaker 2:know that's quite difficult. Yeah, exactly, I think you hit the nail on the head there and I just think you know, when you look at some of the short bios, you know you can kind of really see that representation and it's just, you know, hope, hopefully enabling others just to kind of perhaps see a path that they might be able to follow. And everybody's going to be faced with different challenges and, you know, have a different starting point or things that they're looking to aspire towards. So having that range is also really important.
Speaker 1:Um, overall, yes, and I'm pleased you weren't mentioned the word challenges there because there are lots of challenges in the tech industry, as a lot of our community know, um, and I wanted to to ask you a bit about that. What, what do you see as the biggest challenges facing women in tech today, and how can initiatives like our Power Up Awards help address them?
Speaker 2:I mean, there are a number of different challenges that I think you could pick on, and it's not, you know, fixing one challenge will fix them all type thing, and I think, particularly in the context of a large global corporate company that I operate within, I think there's probably a few that we face that I would highlight, and the one of them and I think it is still relevant today is that we do still see a career drop off as people, as women, reach a certain point in their lives and make certain choices, and it is something that we are very focused on within Shell. We're very conscious of this and we have made some very big commitments to have 40% of women in senior leadership roles by 2030, and we are making some excellent progress and, to be honest, I think our executive committee is leading the way here, because we currently have four out of our seven leaders. There are women um on the executive committee, which is the highest we've ever um had at this point, so over 50, you'd actually say yeah um, but I do think there are others.
Speaker 2:I think we talked a little bit about representation, um, but representation, even within um you know the females is really important. I think, you know people seeing role models that look like them is incredibly important, and it is something that we are still continuing to work on within Shell as well, as we also touched on this the pipeline, you know. So obviously I'm very focused on technology, but all of the STEM subjects we require within Shell to be successful as we go through the energy transition, and that strong pipeline is really very relevant to us. And again, I think something like the Power Up Awards is just a great opportunity for us to shine a light on this and have a moment in time that says you know, this is what good could look like, these are some of the things that you could aspire to be.
Speaker 2:It's a moment also of like reflection reflection, you know, both individually and for companies to say, well, look what somebody else has made to achieve. Are we doing enough? Is there something more that we could be doing? Um, what can we learn from it as well? And, to be honest, I also really think it's important just to take a minute and say well done and congratulate um people who have, um you know, achieved, um you know, maybe significant milestones, milestones or moments or outcomes for the community as well, just to say, you know, really great job and thank you. I mean it's just really important to have a minute to. You know, a lot of hard work went into getting to this point and showing some appreciation for that goes a long way as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and you're so right in the sense that the fact that you have um goals as well and and um, you know things that you you have set it means, as though, that you're more conscious of these things, because, for example, having a list like that and shining and shining a light on those people, like the fact you said this, is you know what good looks like. It's kind of saying you know that there are, there are people there because, even if we're not doing it on purpose sometimes it's it's not on purpose. If you're a hiring manager, you tend to hire what you know and somebody that is like you and somebody that you've hired before and you think that's been a success. I'm going to do that again and even if it's done, you know, just it's not done on purpose, it's just something that you're used to. So, you know, lists like this are kind of saying that exactly what you said, this is what good can look like.
Speaker 1:There are these amazing ladies. They're doing great things. Have you considered you know somebody that might be different to you, look different, different to you, but they will definitely bring something different to the team, to your workforce and to your day-to-day and the thought process. So, yeah, just highlighting that they're there and the great things that they're doing, and you're right, and the hard work that they've done to get to that point as well is not always um is not always seen by by everybody.
Speaker 1:Um, we actually had a discussion with our judging panel about this, about um highlighting more um ladies in more junior roles and, as we were talking about through, you know, right through the pipeline right up to to um senior leadership, because it tends to be those ladies that don't even realise they have a good story. That's the thing as well. They don't realise they've done a lot already. That somebody should be, you know, highlighting them and saying you know you've done so much already, so you know people need to know about this. So you're right, awards like this kind of highlight those ladies that have already just started. And then it's always lovely when you work on an award series and in the next five to 10, 15 years you see where those ladies go and where their career takes off and you can look back and say you know they were on our short list all those years ago and here's where they've progressed to. So it kind of, you know, helps in that progress as well that when we do look back and you can see how far, how far they've gone.
Speaker 2:I really think, just picking up on what you're talking about, the early and the mid career, because I think once you get to your sort of the senior roles, it's not, you know, any easier. They're different challenges, obviously, but it is in a way like once you've there, you've got a platform, you've got a larger voice, um, but it is the early and the mid-career and if you think about where people start to make family choices through that sort of mid-career range as well, most you know generally, um, it's just incredibly important that people you know can see that it is possible and these are some of the opportunities, um, that would be available. I mean, I love what you're saying there in terms of highlighting and making more focus at those points in the career journey you know, nominated for awards or won awards, um, that's almost easy.
Speaker 1:It's easier when you know to to build that.
Speaker 1:When you come back of the things that you've you've done before you had a family, if you want to come back, ramp back on, if you're going for a returnship, you know you can say I did all of these things before and I was highlighted in my role um as somebody that won an award, for instance, or was um shortlisted for an award, and then when you do return to the tech industry hopefully return to the tech industry it's ramping on and picking up where you left off and then moving from there.
Speaker 1:And this conversation about mid-level dropout it is something that keeps coming up within our community and it is such a challenge for so many businesses and obviously ladies leave for lots of different reasons, not just to start families. So, yeah, it's definitely those again, those, those companies that just kind of trying to get ahead of that and trying to support that as as much as they can um for ladies that are leaving or returning um. But I think those ladies, uh, those companies will definitely um be able to move ahead of of other um companies that aren't really haven't really noticed that almost um and aren't actively trying to. You know address that I wanted to talk to you about success stories or initiatives from Shell, so can you share any success stories or initiatives from Shell that demonstrate their commitment to empowering women in technology?
Speaker 2:For sure. I can certainly give a good go, because there's obviously a lot. Um, you know we're a big company and um, we do have high expectations of ourselves, and I don't think there is one single answer. I think it is you need to take a range of different actions in order to to address the different things that tend to hold women back. Um, you know all the different points in the career journey, um, so I think there are a few things that we do focus on quite a lot at Shell. One is around being really purposeful in our recruitment, so we do start with 50-50 hiring for graduates. We've been very successful over quite a few years now with that as the baseline, which obviously helps support the pipeline then coming Definitely.
Speaker 2:One thing that's maybe quite interesting, particularly given your audience, is we do leverage a number of external partners that specialise in supporting training women in technology with key technical skills and what they do is they take sort of cohorts through and they might be focusing on graduates or maybe maternity returners and train them in particular technical skills and then offer them a placement, and then they have a very high success rate at the end of the placement that the company that they've been placed with would offer them a full-time role, and we've had a lot of success working with specialist companies like this. And what is really fascinating is the approach that they take with recruitment. They look for so within Shell we look for specific skills and capabilities when we're doing our recruitment, but what they look for is the ability to learn and the ability to adapt to change. So it's very different in terms of what they're doing, but that's we've had a lot of success within IT with that approach. We do do a lot within Shell and within Shell IT when it comes to DE&I as a whole, and we focus a lot on awareness all the way through to allyship, and there's a range of activities from book clubs to external events to um. We do have an arch number of employee advocacy groups, and particularly around women in technology. Um, we have a lot of focus there.
Speaker 2:And then the other one I would also sort of highlight, um is probably flexibility and working patterns, because the one thing I'm worried about right now is that my youngest son, who's who couldn't go to summer camp today because he's unwell, might pop in and say hello. And the one thing that I do really benefit from with Shell and you you talked about why I've been there for nine years is I do have a young family and I will say this holiday period I'm really struggling. I don't know what's happened this particular summer, but without the regular school and the wraparound care, um, it's a bit of a juggle. And what I benefit from with Shell is the flexibility to adjust my schedule. Um, both my husband and I work full-time and you know we we have commitments at work and we obviously have commitments to our family and the ability to just to juggle it around and I feel very empowered to do what I need to do in order to balance that.
Speaker 2:And I think those types of policies also help to ensure that you've got retention of staff in the long run, but also help to enable the staff in the short term, because I won't always have young children, so when you think about this over a period of my career, this is just a moment in time Overall. So I think there are a range of things that you need to do and you know, from sort of recruitment to um. You know how you engage within your um, within your communities, to build awareness and understanding of DE&I, and how you need to focus to all the policies, um and the approach to inclusion that you need to have as a company in order to enable this whole end-to-end system to actually work yes, yes, I love that, I love everything you just said, because you're so right it has to be this whole end-to-end system.
Speaker 1:It's not one thing one silver bullet that just cures everything overnight, and that's it, but unfortunately it's not that simple.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly, and it takes time. And I love what you were discussing there about flexibility, because so many people look for that, and a perfect example again as to why you've stayed at you know a company for that long and offering you that flexibility. And it's something that our ladies in our community talk about so often, because we there's always this argument about you know, hiring parents. Actually, they are very loyal. They don't want to be messed around. They want to keep to their schedule and to be able to. They don't want to jump around and have that uncertainty, especially if you have young children. So parents, you, you know they come back into the workforce. They have all these new skills as well that they didn't know they had before. A lady recently told me I didn't know I could negotiate about things. I didn't even know we were not negotiable before, because now I have a toddler and um, she said that's really important exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then you come back and you think, yes, I, you know, you are committed and you you want to start that company because they're very flexible. I had a lady on here recently who said to me she worked at a company she obviously left um who, whenever a child was sick, uh, she had to take a holiday day to um be with that that child. And she said, obviously I did not stick it out and I know she moved to one of our corporate ambassadors and she said when I got there I just realized how lucky I was that not everybody has that flexibility in their workplace. And when you do find a company that is like that and supportive, you, you just stay, you just want to stay put Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you know stories like those where you hear that people have had to change. I mean it's the company's loss. It takes a lot to recruit people, yeah, and there's a lot of corporate knowledge that it takes to run a company. And when you lose that, you lose a lot. And you've got to think of it. And I think this is what Shell does quite well. It considers things in the long term, not just the short term, you know. So supporting people by not forcing them to take a sick day every time somebody's sick you know kids get sick when they're young, it's just a fact of life. But in the long run, you know, one would hope that the benefit of that employee to Shell would outweigh some of that short-term loss of productivity on the immediate day. It's just a very short-term view and I think that's what Shell does quite well in terms of considering the long-term nature of this. Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:And, on that note, we discussed this a little bit, but I wanted to touch into it a little bit further. In what way does Shell actively promote diversity and inclusion within its own workforce, particularly in tech related roles?
Speaker 2:It's such a great question and, to be honest, the Powering Live strategy, which was set from the top down, kind of sets out Shell's vision on DE&I better than I ever could, and it's a very clear statement for us to become the most diverse and inclusive organisation in the world, and we do have very clear commitments and targets in place to support that. I talked about the 40% of women in senior leadership roles by 2030, and I will say I've gone through my own journey when it comes to the use of targets, and I know there are still mixed views out in the community over whether we should or shouldn't use them, but currently, where I am, I do think what gets measured, gets managed, and being clear um, with very clear statements, like we've made, that the company, the makeup of our company, should reflect the makeup of society that we support, I think is very clear um, and I like that in terms of what we're trying to achieve. You do have to have you know if we've been talking about things in place to enable that to happen, though, and I think there are some things that we do particularly well. We have quite a structured approach to how we do things like performance management. We do consider our conscious and unconscious biases quite heavily when we're looking at that. Have I just given all the weighting to people who look like me or have I really considered who I'm rewarding? We do really consider recruitment.
Speaker 2:We talked a little bit about grad recruitment, but do um push for diversity in our short lists, um for roles as well. It isn't always easy when the pipeline is not where it needs to be, particularly in um. You know, I think it's across all stem, but I can really talk about technology um. So it's, it is something that we continue to really work on um overall and, as I said, I think there's some things that we do really well in terms of we have a number of women in technology initiatives in all of our core IT locations and there's a lot of activity that happens through those initiatives. We do have specific female led training as well at different points in the career actually to help support um our staff um through learning as well.
Speaker 2:And I think what I particularly love um about shell is we continue to embrace the topics that matter to the staff when it comes to dni, so we don't just kind of stick with something that may get a little dated, and a great example of this um that I happen to know about because they asked me to be on the panel and it should be quite quite interesting. But we've got a face-to-face event being planned towards the end of the year for the UK Women in Technology and they've asked us to do a panel on and I wrote this down health as wealth periods, fertility and menopause, and what I love about this is that we're sort of embracing the topics that really matter to women. So all women are going to be faced with periods of menopause and many will obviously be faced with fertility as well. And whilst menopause has really been talked quite a bit about in the UK media and I think now in sort of you know a lot of big companies more over the last couple of years, it's still a bit new and I think it's a real opportunity to kind of talk about a topic that is going to impact so many people.
Speaker 2:But men and women will join the event and I'm both an employee but I'm also a line manager, so I hope it's a good opportunity for me to learn as well about how I might be able to support some of my other team members who will go through these things, and but also for my male colleagues to learn a little bit about how they might be able to support me as as well, and I think that's what I kind of love. I think it sort of encapsulates shell quite well. We do embrace these types of things, um, and we're learning we're not, you know, perfect and by any means and that we certainly try and um, I think you know continuing to embrace these things is really important to help us grow in our d&I journey within Shell.
Speaker 1:Definitely yes, and you're so right. There are the good companies, again, they know. You know always learning, always trying to figure out something new and also to ensure that employees don't feel like there's that you know people pointing a finger at them or saying you've been doing something wrong in your day to day or in your team. And I think sometimes when you're addressing that day to day, instead of just some you know annual training that comes up where people feel like they got dragged off to be told all the things they've been doing wrong that year, instead of you know making sure that that's built into what you're doing every day. Um, that makes people feel more like you know what I can. I can take feedback. I can, I can learn about things. I can open my mind to how others might be feeling um the same with you know that that topic of um periods and menopause coming up, it it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It's almost like before um, when people started talking about these types of topics and people were thinking you know, there's like almost a quick way to address something like that. Someone said to me recently yes, menopause is more than just a desk fan. So it's almost as somebody turning up with a desk fan and say problem solved. You know, it's kind of. There's a lot more to that, and if people don't have that as part of their discussions, um, and, like you said, as a manager as well how, how people might be able to help you or help others, um, and to understand how that um feels for people, you have to start having that discussion um, slowly but surely, and then, um, more people know and, as you said, it's never a case of um, it's actually never a case of our work is done. You're always, you know, um learning and building something else into shell, um as to, and you keep moving on that um.
Speaker 1:But you're so right, it is a conversation that has to keep moving, and I think as well the good companies you know, like yourselves, you'd admit that you don't always get it right and that we need to keep moving. And I think as well, the good companies you know, like yourselves, you'd admit that you don't always get it right and that we need to keep changing and adapting, and that is something that you know. Companies need to realize as well that they can't stop moving and they need to keep addressing things. So, yeah, I love that. That sounds like it's going to be a good panel for you.
Speaker 2:It's a good topic to talk about, for sure, definitely.
Speaker 1:We are almost out of time, but. I wanted to ask you you are a successful woman in tech. You are living and breathing it. I know you mentioned that you are struggling this summer, but you are managing a work life balance as a full time parent. So I wanted to ask you you what advice would you give to aspiring women in tech?
Speaker 2:I always, um, love listening to other people's answers when they get this type of question, because you can learn so much about them and, um, maybe get a little hidden hidden gem as well. But, um, I think one of the things that when I look back on my early career I didn't really realise it at the time but as I've gotten a bit older I sort of recognise was really beneficial for me was just embracing the different roles that come along. And what I mean is I was a management consultant and you don't always get to pick and choose the jobs that you do, and some of the job titles are really not very glamorous. You know, test lead is not the most inspiring of job titles I've ever held, but is a, you know, necessary to deliver some of the delivery that we did at the time. But what I learned as I look back was whatever the job spec says when you start doing it and there's a lot of discussion about you know how women look at job specs compared to men. That's not necessarily what I mean, but whatever it starts with and whatever you might be able to make that role into can be very different things. So just don't be put off by the job title, what the job spec is.
Speaker 2:Really, look at the role in terms of what the opportunities it could present to you as and what's. You know, know the potential within it and how you might learn and grow with it. And you know, as you said, there's some people not everybody wants progression. Some people just want a role that's going to offer them some balance. Some people want roles that are going to offer them broader skills. But my advice would really be to just not look at it in terms of what it is today, but what you could make it be tomorrow, because when I look back on my career, um, as I said, I didn't realize it at the time, but that is the thing that enabled me to grow the most, um, and has enabled me to get to to where I am right now, um, uh, overall. So it would be to look at the potential of the role, um, not what the the role is today.
Speaker 1:That's such good advice. You are absolutely right. There is a lot around um women perhaps not going for jobs if they don't think they're qualified um. But also it just sounds like you've had a variety of roles that perhaps you wouldn't have gone for um if you'd just gone by the title um, but the things that you would have learned along the way that would have got you to your next role, in your next role, um, I love that, just embracing what comes along um. Obviously, you know there are points you would have to set some boundaries and so that's really not for me, um, but it sounds like yeah, I don't think quite that far, you know, you know that's one thing, but just you know, if you think, oh, maybe really thinking about the role, the potential of the role, could offer you
Speaker 2:um verse. Maybe what's written down today and I think that's what Shell does does enable us with, because, if I think about even my roles over the last nine years, what I started with and where I am in the role now is very different and you have such scope to kind of shape the role into what you think it needs to be. And that is what enables me to grow and it's why I still, you know, I'm still engaged and learning every day with what I do at Shell. You know, some days aren't always easy and some days, you know, are downright difficult. But you know, on the whole, I've stuck it out for nine years for a reason, and that is because it does offer me a lot of growth and I, you know, on the whole, I've stuck it out for nine years for a reason, and that is because it does offer me a lot of growth and I, you know, I do get a lot of enjoyment out of that at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Definitely yes, and the freedom that you know if you reached, you'd been in a role for a few years and you've got I like aspects of this, but not all things I'm doing. It sounds like you have the freedom to be able to say that and say, actually I'd like to move on to try something different in a nice way, so leave some of these things behind, that's not really for me and move on to something else. Without being looked at as well, you're going to have to exit and we're going to have to find somebody else that fits into this mold of what we wanted for that job mould of what we wanted for that job. It just sounds like you have been able to progress in your career as you chose to do, and also, obviously, for the good of the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's always a balance the good of the business and the you know what the individual is looking for.
Speaker 2:But by and large, I do think we try within Shell to take into account both aspects and enable people to grow within their roles and to, you know, morph the scope of the role to be what it needs to be overall. So I think there's just a lot of opportunity and I think, as I said, just very early on in my career I didn't really realise, you know, because you were kind of forced into being the test lead. But you know, looking back now, you know of forced into being the test lead but, um, you know, looking back now, you know I might have started the test lead, but then I was, you know, then you took on more responsibility and you were able to, you know, sort of grow with it and then you became this and then you became that and you know it's just so much opportunity, um, so just to really push the role in the direction that you want it to be in um and get as much out of it as you can yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:It's brilliant advice. Um, we're already out of time and I could keep picking your brains about shell, um, and why you chose to partner with us on the power up awards, and, but we are already at the end, so thank you so much for sharing your time today. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Thank you for having me, thank you for everybody listening. Um, our ceremony takes place on september, the 11th. We look forward to seeing some of you there. Um, we couldn't be more excited about having shell as a headline sponsor for that, um, and we thank you so much for your support, um. So um, katherine, thank you so much, as you said, coming along today, and for everybody listening. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
