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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
From Journalism to Tech Leadership: A Journey of Discovery & Empowerment
In this episode, we delve into the journey of Janina Voigt, Engineering Director at Celonis, a trailblazing tech leader who found her passion through unexpected twists and turns. Initially drawn to journalism after high school, she soon realized it wasn't her calling. It was only by chance, through her boyfriend's guidance, that she stumbled upon computer science—a field that would shape her future in unimaginable ways.
Join us as Janina shares her experiences, from studying in New Zealand to pursuing a PhD at Cambridge University. After her academic journey, she embarked on a thrilling career at Google, where she evolved from a software engineer to a tech lead, and later, a successful manager.
Join us for a conversation about discovering passion, embracing change, and charting your own path to success.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Bateman, the Content Director at she Can Code, and today we are discussing From Journalism to Tech Leadership a Journey of Discovery and Empowerment. I've got the wonderful Janina Voigt, engineering Director at Solonis, with me today, who was initially drawn to journalism after high school but soon realised it wasn't her calling. So she's going to share her story with us and how she stumbled across computer science, a field that would shape her future in unimaginable ways. Janina, thank you so much for joining us on Spilling the Tea. It's a pleasure to have you with us. Thanks for having me. We have a lot to cover today, so can we kick off with a bit of background about you, if that's okay, to set the scene for our ladies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so you already said it right my name is Janina. I'm actually based in Munich in Germany right now. I'm originally from Germany, but I also spent a lot of my time in New Zealand, where I moved when I was a teenager. So I did my high school and university there and then ended up back in Europe about, I guess, 10 years later. So here I am.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I was out of curiosity. What's it like living in New Zealand?
Speaker 2:Awesome. No, it's great. I do miss it. It's life is just a little bit more chilled, I think.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, definitely, and you. So I'm curious now, when you so today we're going to be talking a little bit about you studied journalism, um, and then you transitioned into the tech industry. So did you study journalism whilst you were in New Zealand, then, and that? It's that kind of where you picked up a feeling of what you might like to do with your career, perhaps with the people that you were at school, with the subjects you picked. Has that all happened in New Zealand?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, that happened there. Actually in the in my last year of high school in New Zealand we had a um. I took journalism as a subject at school and we did the school newspaper and I actually really enjoyed that and, to be honest, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, because I always liked maths but I also like languages and so I was a bit torn and I kind of just picked that. I thought you know, hey, it's been fun, so why not try it? And then I think I so I studied actually TV and radio journalism at the New Zealand Broadcasting School but I realized pretty quickly that it just wasn't for me at all.
Speaker 2:Um, but you know that sense of like failure, you don't want to, you don't want to kind of admit it to yourself. So I think I knew deep down inside, I knew pretty early on that wasn't right, but it took quite some time just to admit it to myself, I think yes, yeah, but you found out early at least, and um discovered that you can transition into tech, which is what you decided to do.
Speaker 1:So we're going to chat a little bit about your journey. We're going to go into a little bit more about how you transitioned into tech from journalism. So could you tell us a little bit about that? How did you end up in computer science and what prompted this shift and how did you navigate the transition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think when I realised that I wasn't really enjoying my journalism course, I sort of started looking around and I did a little bit of sort of maths by correspondence, just to you know, keep up my math skills. But most importantly, I think at the time my boyfriend, he studied computer science and you know, honestly, I couldn't really understand why. In the beginning I just thought, you know that sounds really boring. I even went along to some of his lectures and you know, it just didn't really sound like me. But one day he came to me and he said, can I teach you how to program? Because he wanted to try it out on someone.
Speaker 2:You know, how would you teach someone how to program? And so he did a little bit of Java with me and that was enough to kind of catch my attention. And so this is going to sound kind of old. But I went to the library actually afterwards and I got myself a book, which is what she did back then, and it was called, I think, teach Yourself Java in 24 Hours. And I just worked my way through that and by the end of it I sort of I was really excited about just the fact that you can. It almost felt like you could do anything with programming right. There was like no bounds to what you could imagine doing with it, and that really excited me.
Speaker 1:Amazing that's, and him wanting to to teach you and then just realising actually maybe this is for me it's always interesting. A lot of our ladies in our community have transitioned from one industry into another. It's always interesting to hear who was the person that did that, who was the person that kind of showed you the way. In your sense it was your boyfriend. So actually we have a lot of ladies in our community who say my husband was a software engineer and you know, since it was your boyfriend. So right, actually we have a lot of ladies in our community who say my husband was a software engineer and you know they were working from home and I thought that looks really good.
Speaker 2:So that happens a lot yeah, I was honestly pretty reluctant in the beginning. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't sort of an immediate oh yeah, please teach me how to program. But then I think once I started it it sort it sort of clicked pretty quickly and I then basically went. I dropped out of my journalism about one and a half years in and switched to computer science. And I think everyone in my class thought I was a little bit crazy, because you know it's a little bit of an extreme switch from journalism to computer science. I think they also all kind of hated maths so they couldn't, really could not imagine it. But for me I think it was a really good decision.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it definitely paid off. We touched upon this a little bit before, but what was your experience like studying in New Zealand and then later pursuing a PhD at Cambridge University? You know how did these academic experiences shape your career trajectory, so you ended up at Cambridge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. That was really exciting. Actually, I really enjoyed that time a lot. So I think I feel, like my Bachelor and the Masters I did, they were relatively like hands on. We did a lot of. Also, we had a lot of assignments where we were, you know, doing pretty practical tasks, and then, when I came to Cambridge, my PhD ended up being very theoretical. So that was quite a switch for me that I definitely struggle with a lot of the time.
Speaker 2:I feel like the PhD really kind of shaped how I think about things for me, because, well, I always say I learned two things during my PhD. One is that I want to work on things that matter, and two, that I want to work with people. Because my PhD experience was, well, you know, when you get to doing a PhD, the topic tends to be very niche. At least it was for me. Right, the topic that I did might be interesting to like 12 people out there somewhere, but probably not much more. And the other thing is that it was a relatively isolating experience because my research group was working on very diverse topics and so we didn't really understand in detail what everyone else was working on, and so most of my PhD was actually written in my room on my couch and I had a great time. Like I loved Cambridge. It was also very social after work, but the work experience was a little bit lonely, I would say, maybe, and so I came out of it and I feel like I learned very important things about myself. Right?
Speaker 1:The people for me are really important, this feeling of everyone working towards a shared goal rather than you you know the sitting there by myself yes, definitely, and well, I'm pleased to hear, though, that that didn't turn you off, uh, going into tech, and and some of our community has said you know what they? There's that stereotype that when you work in tech, you work on your own. Um, and I take it. You didn't find it like that when you actually went for your first job. You thought, at least you work on your own, and I take it. You didn't find it like that when you actually went for your first job. You thought, at least I'm not on my own anymore, like I was when I was studying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, not at all, but I 100% agree. That was also the stereotype that I had. Right, I thought programming is something that you know some nerdy guy does sitting in his basement by himself all day, and that did not match my what I wanted and what I imagined for myself at all. And I think that's the industry is very different. You cannot build large pieces of software by yourself. Software is built by teams over years, and I think that's an important skill to have in many ways being able to collaborate and to work with multiple people. And so I'm really sad thinking about the fact that we might be putting off people who want to work together and are good at working together and building relationships and coming to consensus decisions and those kinds of things, because we really do need those people for developing software.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially somewhere along that journey as well, we hear about young girls that perhaps were really turned off by computer science school. If it was very maldominated on their course, they might not even make it to university to study or they might be put off by that. Or, like yourself, your studying experience was nothing like when you went into the workplace. I had a podcast recently with four ladies from a company. They had been interns at a great company and when they had their job offers accepted I got to chat to them about what that was like and they said all of them said the world of work and their internship was nothing like when they had been at university and they were so pleased that they had decided to go into the world of tech because actually going to work at a tech company was nothing like when they were at university. So yeah, as long as you get there, then you can see. You said you know you work with a lot of people. You work on a team very collaborative. You work on a team very collaborative.
Speaker 2:I think. The other thing I would maybe say like, from early, if I reflect on early in my career, I spent a lot of time worrying that I wasn't technical enough. I spent a lot of time sort of worrying about the guys around me. Right, they had done computer science since they were teenagers. They were so into tech, they'd go home after work and research the newest technology and you know, ideally like do more coding. And then you, to me it felt like they had all the answers right and and I always I sort of looked at them and I was like I could never be like that, right, I will never be that technical.
Speaker 2:And it took me a couple of years, I think, to get over that and to realize that, um, that is not the only thing right, that, that that is going to make you successful. And I think actually, on the contrary, the more sort of you go through your career, if you go into leadership positions, it's actually the soft skills and the people skills that do become really important. So it's really funny if I look back on sort of my younger self, I almost want to go and shake myself and say don't worry so much. Right, you're good at a lot of other things. So you know, don't overly just focus on comparing yourself on that, on your technical skills Also my perceived technical skills Right, I probably also had a lot of insecurities and maybe wasn't wasn't objectively evaluating myself either maybe wasn't wasn't objectively evaluating myself either.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that because um spilling the tea. The podcast was started um for that reason to share all of the different roles in tech, that you don't have to be technical, you don't have to be a techie to be in tech, and we wanted to share all of the different roles. Um and just people talking about their days and that most of it is not technical. Um, and so many people say you know you, you you work in a team and um and sometimes you work across many different teams as well, and you you have to be able to have those soft skills where you can um communicate and uh also report back to the board sometimes, and sometimes having to report back very technical uh things back to the board in a very simple way that they can understand um has nothing to do with how something works or making something work. Um. So you were a software engineer at google, um, and then you eventually became a tech lead. What were some of the key lessons that you learned during your time at Google, especially in terms of leadership?
Speaker 2:and team dynamics. I think one of the most important lessons in general for me is just the I mentioned this already a little bit right but the importance of people and relationships. I think that a lot of us don't invest enough in talking to other people and getting to know each other. I'm a big believer in actually really like knowing the people that you work with, because it allows you to just build this trust and see each other as people, and I've seen so many instances in my career where you're so much more willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, to help someone out to you know, to have an open discussion with someone if you know them and you have a pre-existing relationship, and so I feel like all of us don't spend enough time probably just on the getting to know each other, the talking, the relationship building. So I think that's definitely been a big theme for me throughout my career.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm I'm not sort of naturally the best person at networking, uh, but it is actually really important, um to you know, to know the people around you yeah, definitely yeah, because when challenges come up, um, uh, it's so much easier to be able to bond together to say you know, we need to figure out a way of how we're going to get through this. And um, yeah, it's so much easier when you do know your team well, um, or you have a wider network that you can call upon sometimes if you need help as well. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2:I think, at the end of the day, it's the people that make the team right and, um, you know, I think if you think about you know a happy team and a team that works, you know where people like each other and get on and you know work well together, it's just going to be so much more successful. You strategy in terms of you know, if you want to purely think about building things as quickly as we can for our customers, it's still the right strategy to make sure that we have a positive culture and you know a good team definitely in a team that you want to stay on and your team members want to remain involved.
Speaker 1:Exactly how did you end up at Google? Was that after your PhD? Was that your first job after your PhD?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. I interned at Google actually before my PhD. So, sort of on my way from New Zealand to Cambridge, I stopped off in Munich for three months and I interned at Google, and that's actually how I ended up in Munich in the end. It wasn't sort of a deliberate choice, it was more that they offered me to return back to my old team where I interned, and I did that and I spent quite a few years actually there with you know, working with the same people and the same manager, which was great. And then in some ways, you know, I felt like it was a bit of a bubble. Um, you know, google is great, uh, but um, I also then at some point got to the you know got to the place where I thought it's actually a good idea to to look outside and to to learn a bit more about what the rest of the world is like, and so that's, in the end, where I end up leaving Google and coming to Solonis.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing, and you are quite passionate about mentoring and coaching, so I wanted to ask you a little bit about that, because they're a passion of yours. Can you share some strategies or approaches that you found effective in mentoring and developing others?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the first things I would say is that it's really all about the mentee, right? It's not about you. So you've got to leave your ego at the door. And I think this also means that you help different people in different ways, and the best mentors, I think, are able to adapt to what the person needs at the time when they need it. And so to me, it's also a lot about listening and understanding what the person needs, how they need me to provide that information, right, Some people might need me to go in relatively directly and say, hey look, you know you've got to do A, B and C.
Speaker 2:I think some people benefit a lot more from a more coaching approach, where you sort of guide them to a solution, right, Maybe? Or, you know, you ask questions to get them to work it out for themselves. So I think a big part of it is to kind of take yourself out of the equation and focus on on what the other person needs from you and how to best get them there yes, definitely, but you, you're right, leaving your ego at the door.
Speaker 1:But in turn, you, you must really learn from, from that, as you say, you know, figuring out what is best for that person and even mentoring somebody in, almost in preparation for looking after a team um can be really good practice to figure out how you work with people and helping them. Um, yeah, there are so many bonuses from being a mentor.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah, I think you also learn a lot from your mentees a lot of the time, right, because they'll give you a different perspective of thinking about things, right? So it does often happen that you go like, oh, I never really thought about this way or no one has asked me that question before, and so you know. It sort of forces you to also think more consciously about the things that you think. Maybe you know I had one person at Google, one person on my team. I used to have office hours because I had a relatively large team and I didn't necessarily have one on ones with, you know, all 75 people on the team, but only my direct reports. But I had office hours for anyone to come.
Speaker 2:And there was one person who'd always take my office hours, like I don't know, every three months, and he always came with the most interesting questions, you know, and I would always be like great, I know there's going to be something interesting coming. And so he'd come in and he'd say something like how does headcount planning work? Or you know which level is the best? You know optimizes for happiness? Like what career level, at what level do you maybe get less happy, and those kinds of questions they always really made me also have to think and I really enjoyed that. So I feel like we both got a lot out of those conversations yeah, especially levels of happiness.
Speaker 1:I bet you've never even thought of that. Question yourself actually, I think I'm gonna. I yeah, I might throw that one to our team actually later today and say has anyone ever?
Speaker 2:thought of that. Um, I mean, I think it's an interesting. You know, it's so easy to get caught on the career ladder where you're like you know, people think about climbing to the next level. But I also really appreciated that there was someone there who said I want to be happy, right, um, and, and there are also cons to climbing the ladder beyond a certain level. Um, and, yeah it. Um, it was a very interesting question for myself to also think about, because I'd never thought about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you find those mentors? Was it a program, or was it quite informal, or how did that work?
Speaker 2:Well, I think a variety of things I've definitely. So I've had a lot of mentors and I've had a lot of mentees. That goes in both directions right. But I think I've done various things. Sometimes there have been programs, sometimes you got assigned a mentor, or maybe I've also had group mentoring, where you're in a group or I've mentored a group before.
Speaker 2:I think that there's also a lot of pros to finding your own mentors or having your manager or someone that knows you well help find your mentees or a mentor.
Speaker 2:So I've also definitely had a lot of people approach me and just say like hey, can you mentor this person? I think, in some ways, one of the other things to be aware of is I think it works best when you actually click with with your mentor, and sometimes you just don't, and that isn't really something. That's not to say that that person's not a good mentor or you know a good mentee or something. It's just that with some people you connect better than others, and so I find that the you know, when you assign someone sort of blindly, you know it's sort of a little bit luck of the draw, but when you are finding someone and picking someone, you can usually make a good guess as to who you can learn the most from yes, definitely, and I suppose, if you have a mentor and it doesn't work out well between both of you, that, as you said, sometimes you just connect better with other people.
Speaker 1:So perhaps don't feel deterred that that isn't for you. Go on and find somebody that you do really connect with and learn from, and I think it's not a failure, it's just realizing that it's.
Speaker 2:you know you're maybe not getting the most out of it and I think, um, you know, it's also good to realize that, rather than continuing with something, um, that takes up time for both of you, right, um, if it's not worth it, then it's not worth it. Um, yeah, I would say the other thing with finding mentors. I've had a lot of people that are considered mentors over the years, and this, if I think about the number of them, right, who were officially my mentors, that's a much smaller number. So for me, I've also definitely cultivated relationships where it's like, you know, I meet the senior leader or, you know, maybe you know someone sort of on the next level of the career ladder or something that I meet through a project, and then I kind of just keep in touch, right, have coffee every now and then, and so I think it's also about building that network again of people that you can then call up when you need to make a difficult decision or when you need help, to say, you know, hey, can we chat about this?
Speaker 1:So I think it doesn't have to be a permanent mentoring relationship, it doesn't have to be official, it's just finding people that you trust, who can give you different perspectives yes, yeah, I love that and having a mix as well of some formals, some informal, and some will stay and some won't, and some internal mentors and some external mentors or mentees, um as well, whether they're in your company or outside of your company, and just to have a real mix of people in your network, definitely. And I wanted to ask a little bit about imposter syndrome. It's something that it comes up on here a lot and it's something that a lot of us have struggled with. Um, how have you personally dealt with imposter syndrome throughout your career and what advice would you give to others facing similar challenges?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing is just to realise that this is a really common problem and that you're not alone. I think imposter syndrome can feel really isolating, right, this feeling of I'm not good enough. I think when you know especially when we work everyone's sort of trying to project confidence and competence, even if they don't know what they're doing they want you to believe that they know what they're doing. We will do it right. And so I would say that there's probably a lot of people around you who look like they know what they're doing, who don't, and I'll be the first person to admit that there are many times when I don't know what I'm doing. And it's just part of growing in your career, because every time you step up to a new role or a new scope or a new team, right, you will not know what you're doing, and that's just normal. So that's the first thing I would say. I think, in general, how have I dealt with this? I think I've learned a little bit to accept that that voice will be there and that I can't turn it off, but to also realize that that's just what it is, that it isn't necessarily a reflection of reality and it's not necessarily rational. So when that happens to me, maybe just taking a step back and thinking a little bit about you know, why am I right for this role, or what have I done well, or what am I good at right To kind of remind myself of maybe the facts, if you will really really help. So just recognizing that it is what it is right, it exists, it's there. You're not going to be able to turn it off, probably If out, how to turn it off, please tell me, because I'd love to know, um, but to just accept it, and I think in some ways I've also.
Speaker 2:The flip side of this is that it's also in some ways, good to doubt yourself sometimes. Um, I think, um, I've also we've probably all met people in our careers who are just so confident. They think that they're always right about everything and that they're perfect, right, and in some ways maybe I used to envy those people Right, that that confidence, that like that just sense of you know, of knowing what you're doing. First of all, I think maybe they're projecting it. But I think the other thing is, if you're not reflecting, if you think you're always right, if you think that you know it all, you don't and you're missing out on that reflection and that self awareness and the learning that you get by doubting yourself.
Speaker 2:So doubting yourself and thinking about what am I not good at is also, to a certain extent, pushes you to learn just as long as you don't overdo it. Pushes you to learn just as long as you don't overdo it. So the the line, I think, is that you shouldn't hold yourself back, right. So I worry if I ever hold myself back from something because I have doubts. Um, but I think it's also normal and healthy to reflect and to to think about how I can do better.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. Yes, it's. It's finding that balance, definitely, um, and and having that, that making sure that you you're not overly confident, um, and that you don't hold yourself back. Because you mentioned a little bit earlier about um, technical skills and how you know you used to you feel like you could just shake yourself, your younger self and say you know you don't have to worry too much about, about technical skills and in tech. That's the thing that people find daunting and they think, you know, even if I do make it in, perhaps I'm not as good as other people, um, at coding or whatever it may be um, and people have that, that thought a lot where they just think, you know, in terms of technical skills, perhaps somebody's going to find me out that I shouldn't be here, those kind of uh thoughts and um. I love what you said just taking a step back and thinking what am I good at in?
Speaker 2:this role why?
Speaker 1:why was I hired in this role? Um is so important sometimes just to stop and think. You know, I might be having a bad week. Um, but I was hired for a reason, and and sometimes we just need to reset.
Speaker 2:And there's so many different skills, right. All of us have our strengths and our weaknesses. You know, no one is perfect at everything. So I think, just focusing on finding your niche right what do you love doing, what are you good at and then doubling down on that. I know that there's, you know there's sort of people out there who will tell you to work on your weaknesses, and I'm actually a believer in kind of the opposite, which is building on your strength. So, yes, you have to bring your weaknesses up to a level that is sort of good enough, right?
Speaker 2:If you're really terrible at communicating, for example, you probably need to work on making sure that you're at least okay. But if you're naturally really great with people and you like doing that, then build on that right. If you're naturally great at coding, that's also awesome. Then build on that right. But don't try to be someone that you're not, um, but you know, don't. Don't try to to sort of be what you think everyone expects of you um, expects you to be. Find your own path, you know, at the end of the day, yes, definitely what you want to, and a lot of wise.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. You to be. Find your own path. You know, at the end of the day, yes, definitely what you want to, and otherwise I couldn't agree more. You'll be happy uh, you'll be unhappy, and you'll leave a role because you didn't follow what, what you wanted to do and improve on things you wanted to. Um, now, as an engineering director at solonis, what excites you about your current role and how do you see yourself continuing to grow and making impacts in the future?
Speaker 2:You can probably already tell from the rest of this conversation that I really like working with people, so I think that's sort of the the thing that gets me up on Monday morning after the weekend. So for me, a lot of it is about how do we create an environment where people feel comfortable, where people feel safe, where people feel comfortable, where people feel safe, where people feel that they can succeed to the best of their abilities, right? So that's definitely something that I really enjoy thinking about. It's not easy, right. It's not easy to build a culture that is inclusive and safe and everything. It takes a lot of time and constant work, but I think, you know, I feel like if we can get that right, then a lot of other things just fall into place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and as well, being in the right company. I think finding a place where you feel like you've got your seat at the table and it's your, they're your people, you know they just kind of get you and you get them, and being able to fit into that culture, as you said, that's inclusive and supportive. It can be quite rare to find that at a company and to be happy there. When you interviewed for Solanas, did you get kind of a feel for how it was going to be? Because that is the moment, isn't it? Interviews work both ways is basically what I was thinking. You're not just interviewing for that role, You're interviewing to see as well as to whether or not you want to work there and the feel that you get from the team that you're interviewing with. Is that something that you kind of got from Solana, Swayee, Falk, you know what? These are my people. I definitely want to work there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from so long as where you thought you know what these, these are my people. I definitely want to work there. Yeah, I definitely got a bit of a sense for this um. I mean, I think it's really important, as you say on interviews, to to also evaluate the, the company um, and, you know, thinking about what's important to you before you go into the interviews, um, and then making sure you get some information on that um. It definitely does go both ways and I think, in general, just chatting with people beforehand, if you can meet anyone on the team, you know, in my case I sort of went around and I met a few of the different people who you know would maybe be my peers or on my team, just to get a sense. And it doesn't have to be just interviews, right, you can also, in my case, I chatted with a few folks just over coffee to kind of get a sense, and I think that gave me a pretty good idea of who I was going to be working with and what sort of culture I'd come into.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. And what about for the future in terms of your growth at the company? Do you have a plan for that? Do you feel that, you know, is time that is set aside for for you and your future, and um a continuous development. What? What is that like in in your role currently?
Speaker 2:um, that's a really good question. Um, I think that I've never been the person with a five-year plan. Um, I know some people are. Uh, I always get a bit um anxious when someone comes and says where do you want to be in five years, because I just never feel like I have a good answer. I mean I never did during my career. It's not like I woke up one morning and said I want to be engineering director and my experience for me is always like I have to try something to really know it, like with my journalism. Right, I had to try to find out that wasn't the right thing.
Speaker 1:Five years in tech really isn't realistic to say anyway. I mean, there could be so many new things in the next five years. It's sometimes a five-year plan is not the best to say in technology.
Speaker 2:Even a two-year plan right For me.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely a bit of an experimenter when it comes to these kinds of things.
Speaker 2:So when I thought about becoming a manager, the first thing I did, for example, is host some interns, mentor some people.
Speaker 2:And then I sort of I was like, yeah, I'm going to try it, Right, and then if I don't like it in six months, then you know, I, you know I'll go back to being an individual contributor and that's also okay. And so I think for me, a lot of the time, I just need to try it and to learn if it really works for me, because I think sometimes it's hard to know what the sort of the next step or a different position is really like. And so, yeah, as I said, I like experimenting and, you know, sort of trying to see if I can find safe ways to see what the future might look like. I think at the moment, right, I had my first son one and a half years ago, so I have been back at work now for about 10 months, nine months, but it's also been a big change in my life, right, and so I think the last six months I've mostly been focused on how do I juggle my work, my husband's work, my son and sort of all the new commitments, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, my, my son, um, and and sort of all the, all the new commitments, if you will, yes, yes, as you said, five year plan in tech and also in your personal life, is not always the best setting.
Speaker 1:Um, definitely, um, but it does sound like you're a company um that you know wants to hold on to you and um, uh, develop your career, um into the future as well. So, um and um, definitely. I nearly got lost for words there. I got tongue tied and I got lost um. Yeah, nina, thank you so much for uh sharing your story today. It's been an absolute pleasure. We are already out of time, I'm afraid. I keep picking your brains about, uh, your role at solanus and your career for the rest of the afternoon, but we are already out of time. So, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you For everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
