SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Breaking the Myth: Women in Tech
In this episode, we dive into the pervasive misconception that women aren't interested in pursuing careers in tech.
We sit down with Chanel Johnson, Software Developer and Muskan Gupta, Analyst, Deutsche Bank to unravel the societal constructs that have fueled this myth, from early discouragement in educational choices to exaggerated perceptions of the field's difficulty.
These factors contribute to a narrative that suggests women naturally shy away from tech. However, we explore how this misconception often stems from misinterpretations of women's choices, such as the impact of unsupportive work environments during crucial life stages like maternity leave. Join us as we challenge these assumptions and celebrate the diverse contributions of women in technology.
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Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in again. I am Kayleigh Batesman, the Content Director at she Can Code, and today we are discussing breaking the myth women in tech. We're going to dive into the misconception that women aren't interested in pursuing careers in tech. I've got two amazing women with me from Deutsche Bank today. I have Chanel, who is a software developer, and I have Muskan, who is a data engineer, and they're here to unravel the societal constructs that have fueled this myth, from early discouragement in educational choices to exaggerated perceptions of the field's difficulty. Welcome, ladies. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's a pleasure to have you both on here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for taking time out of your busy days at Deutsche Bank to come and have a chat with us on Spilling the Tea. We're going to start with some introductions, if that's OK to hear a little bit about each of you to set the scene for our community today. Vascon, can we start with you a little bit about you, how you got into tech and how you ended up at Deutsche Bank?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, to be honest, I've always been on kind of a tech path. Pretty much everyone in my family is working in some form or the other in the tech field or, if not the tech field, the education field. So I've been, I've been on a really clear tech path, not because of my family, but also that's because what I've seen and also because it also inherently started interesting me. So in school I chose very technical subjects. I was a complete math and science kid and then I went to university, did electronic and electrical engineering you know, very, very technically heavy courses and towards the end of my course in university I started feeling that maybe true electronic engineering was not something that interested me. It was just a bit dry for me, to be honest, and I thought that maybe something you know more on the software side or maybe more on the data side will interest me more. The data side will interest me more.
Speaker 3:And thankfully I was right, because I took a few modules in university which were electives and turns out that they did interest me. So once I sort of gained a little bit of prowess in those subjects, I decided to apply to different graduate jobs and I found that Deutsche Bank was offering pretty much everything that I was looking for when I wanted to start my career in tech, because you know, the graduate program has rotations and then we also get the chance to choose different roles in tech. So it's not just like sitting at a computer and coding nine to five. That's not how it works and I think that's a massive misconception as well. But yeah, so I think there was a lot of variety at Deutsche and they were also offering what I wanted. So, yeah, that's kind of how I was born into tech pretty much and how I landed at Deutsche as a tech engineer.
Speaker 1:Nice. It's always lovely when our ladies that we speak to they say that they they really loved tech and that's how they they got into tech. A lot of our ladies fall into tech and they say you know, I didn't know it was going to be a good career path, but it's always nice when you do hear ladies that say you know what, tech was just always going to be part of my future anyway, and it was just figuring out what you wanted to do and which areas that you enjoyed, um more than others. So, um, that's brilliant. Now, chanel yourself how did um, how did life in tech start for you and how did you end up at Deutsche Bank?
Speaker 2:I was one of those people who fell into tech that you were talking about previously. When I finished my A-levels, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I felt like I had so many career paths in front of me, especially with the A-levels I completed in maths, chemistry and biology. I could go into anything I wanted to do. So from there, I decided to take two gap years and just to think what do I want to do? And through there I actually wanted to be a data analyst.
Speaker 2:So I had a careers advisor and she was telling me no one's going to hire you to be a data analyst if you don't do any example work first. You need to learn how to code in Python. You need to show them that you're interested, that you're motivated. Especially since I took two gap years, she wanted to make sure that I had something to show for those two gap years. So whilst I was learning how to code in Python, I realized I like coding and maybe I would like something that's more techie. So as career in software development was something I was looking for. So once I realized I wanted to be a software developer, I started looking for apprenticeships, so that's how I fell across Doctor Bank. They were offering a level four apprenticeship in software developer and I applied and now I'm here.
Speaker 1:Amazing. You know what's nice as well. You both said that you wanted to work in data, and we've had ladies on this podcast before share what it's like to work in the data industry, because that we're going to talk about misconceptions a lot today, but that in itself is an industry that's seen as quite dry and that people that work in data might be quite boring individuals. And then I go, you know, want to dip into the data and all of that, and we've we've dipped into all of that and spilling the tea just to dispel the myth that working in data is not what people think that it's like. And it's interesting that when you fell in as well, um chanel, that you wanted to work, um in data, you wanted to be a data analyst. Um, there must have. Was there some somebody around at the time that kind of inspired you in that direction? Or? Um, it was it. You know, did you know somebody that worked in that area?
Speaker 2:um no, I've never met anyone until I started working at the bank that was in data, in the data field. I feel like I wanted to be a data analyst because I'm quite analytical, I like numbers, I like thinking and I thought that would be a good path for me at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and it's working out well so far for both of you, finding great routes into Stoichia Bank. We have a lot to cover today about misconceptions and women working in the tech sector, so we're going to kick off with a quick question about that. What do you think are some common misconceptions about women's interest in pursuing careers in tech? As we, you know, as we said before, there is this kind of stereotype around the tech industry and why women don't want to work in tech. But Muskan, for instance, for you, you knew, you just knew you wanted to work in tech. You know. What do you think some of those common misconceptions? What are they about?
Speaker 3:I think, yeah, like you said. You said, for me it was really strange coming into the tech world and saying, oh my goodness, I feel like I'm the only woman here in a team of 10 men and I, when I did start thinking about it, I realized that, for whatever reason, there is this odd misconception that people feel women are simply not interested in tech, and to be apprised of that fact when all my life I've been on more of a technical path, it was just so shocking to me. So I think one of the biggest, biggest misconception is that women are not interested in tech. And of course there's a lot of reasons to it. There there's, you know, societal constructs and there is, you know, unsupported work environments and stuff like that. But yeah, for me I would say, the biggest one is probably that women are not interested, just deranged to even think about.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, and I know, obviously, women the numbers of women are much smaller than men, but yeah, to have the misconception that women are just not going to be interested at all in a career in tech is just absolutely bizarre. Um, to hear and chanel, I take it, did you, did you feel that as well when you came in that it was that misconception, that perhaps the tech industry wasn't for you, or perhaps you shouldn't have even considered, you know, falling into tech in the first place. Is that a misconception that you felt as well that you just wouldn't be interested in tech?
Speaker 2:I felt one of the misconceptions I had was to be in tech. You have to be quite analytical, you have to be very smart. However, there's so many branches in technology. For example, it could be a ux or ui designer where you can be creative. You can make the wireframes, you can design the websites, you can interact with the users. It's not all all about sitting behind the computer and coding. There's so many other career paths you can be. You can be a business analyst, a product owner. It's not all about sitting behind a computer, and there's for every. If you're passionate about different things, you can find a passion within tech. I would say Definitely.
Speaker 1:I completely agree with you on that front, because ladies in our community they say you know, there is that misconception, Like Bangon just said there, Chanel, it's that you come in and you just work on your laptop or you're quite isolated, that you are quite siloed as a team member. But actually when ladies share their jobs and what they do, they're very much part of a team and actually you have to pick up all of these wonderful soft skills where you have to communicate with your team and you have to communicate back to your manager what you've been doing. And it's not just the case if you get in and you learn coding and you sit on your own and that's it. And that's why women wouldn't want to work in this industry, because it's not very collaborative. That's a complete opposite. Usually, for the ladies that actually work in this industry say you know what? That's nothing like what it actually is to have a day job in tech. I can see you nodding, Muskan.
Speaker 1:I feel like your day is definitely working with a team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, 100%. Like I said, I'm a data engineer, but again sort of echoing what Chanel said, a data engineer doesn't mean that all I do is send stare data right. It's about collaborating as part of a team. It's about making sure that you're working towards the goal that you are given to work on. Um, yes, I think it's a lot more than sitting behind the screen. Um. So, like you said, I'm nodding my head because that's literally what I've been doing the whole day yeah, yeah, I mean I wanted to touch upon societal constructs such as educational guidance and cultural perceptions.
Speaker 1:Moving into that now, because how does that influence women's attitudes towards tech or working in tech? You know, chanel, you fell into tech, but whilst you were at school, for instance, into tech, but whilst you were, you know, at school, for instance, how do you think you know all of that kind of packages up to to build women's attitudes to working in technology? What was it like when you were at school, you know, you know, and you didn't have that feeling of I'm at school, I want to study computer science. Um, you know, did you maybe feel that you weren't encouraged in that area? It just wasn't for you. And then, when you left and were thinking about your career route, then you kind of thought, actually there could be a really good career route for me Whilst I was at school.
Speaker 2:Computer science wasn't offered at Key Stage 3, so we didn't have the opportunity to learn about coding, learn about building applications. You only could choose it for a GCSE option. So already there you were going to be thrown into something that you didn't know about and you had to complete it to a good grade. I think that was something that kind of deterred me as well. Another thing was the misconception that you have to be quite nerdy to be in tech, and I thought, oh, I don't want to be a nerd, that's for nerdy people. I know it's sad to say, but that's what some people think. And from working in tech, I would say it's not about being nerdy, it's being very passionate and interested about what you're doing. And that's the misconception that has been there and how school has kind of pushed me away from having a career in tech whilst I was at that age.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, we can be nerdy and cool at the same time. It's.
Speaker 1:I agree. I do agree. I know you are right. There is that. I agree that, yes, you can be nerdy and cool and and you know it adds up to a fantastic job, like both of these ladies have. But there is that stereotype that, especially if you're young and you're at school and you're picking your subjects, that can turn a lot of girls off and think maybe that isn't for me or I wouldn't consider a career in that, in that area. Um, and you're absolutely right there, that kind of that really would influence a young girl's attitude towards what she studies and her career. But again, you totally just took no notice of that, um, and just thought you know what, I'm gonna do it anyway and, uh, I don't care what people think I want to work in tech. Yeah, I think a lot, I'm going to do it anyway and I don't care what people think I want to work in tech.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think a lot of it is to do with the fact that at home I had a really supportive environment and it was almost like the default environment because, like I said, background of everyone in my family is tech or tech related. But yeah, I mean, I'm quite shocked to hear about Chanel's experience that in school they didn't even offer it until the very last two years, which was a bit surprising, because then how will you know whether you like it and, if you don't like it, what you do next?
Speaker 1:So exactly, and if you make it to to the world of work and working in tech, we had ladies in here on the podcast recently. They were all graduates and there was four of them and they had made it through school and university doing tech. But they had all said, you know, it wasn't the best experience because it was heavily male dominated and it was quite challenging. But actually when they made it to the world of work it was completely different and they said they were so pleased that they had all taken that internship and then moved into a full time role in tech because it was just so, their experience of the world of work in tech was so different to their education and they're so pleased that they, they, they stuck that out. But you know, a lot of ladies, a lot of young girls, unfortunately, would just not get that far and just think this isn't this would just not get that far and just think this isn't, this is yeah, that's unfortunate, but yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3:I'm glad things are still changing. You know, slowly but surely you will get there?
Speaker 1:Definitely yeah, and so there are some other areas as well that don't help with the misconception of ladies being interested in working in tech. So how do unsupportive work environments, particularly during life stages like maternity leave, contribute to the perception that women are not interested in tech? Do you think tech, do you think um chanel? What? What do you think about that? How do you think unsupportive work environments um contribute to the perception that women they're just not interested in tech?
Speaker 2:um, I feel like some women might believe, if they need to take a maternity leave if they've had a baby, that, um, the job will leave without them when, when they come back, someone would have taken their role and it will be harder for them to progress because the managers won't look at them the same. They would feel like they're not going to be putting in as much effort. Because she has a child, she's looking about this, she has to go and do this, whereas women are just as motivated after they've had a baby as they were before. Also, for supportiveness. I know Deutsche Bank. They do offer hybrid working and part-time working, so I do know a few mums where, after they come back from maternity leave, they do work part-time. So Deutsche Bank is quite supportive in that aspect as well. We do have like like a crush downstairs. If you can't find child care, you can bring your child to work and there's a crush that will look after them. So I do feel like it's about finding a supportive workplace and not all workplaces are supportive.
Speaker 1:But if you find an organization that's willing to support you during these lifetimes, I think career in tech will be very good yeah, definitely, yeah, all of those things just being mindful of parents that are new parent not even new parents, but parents in your workforce and things like a creche can just really help somebody's day. But you're just just to be able to retain that talent and retain those ladies instead of those ladies thinking you know what, I've had a child and now I'm going to have to rethink my career or move somewhere else. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Falling in the right workplace is a very supportive one can really make a difference.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to add in an extra side note there about that creche and what it actually entails. It is a backup child care nursery, so it's not an actual nursery, but you do get 20 days a year free if you are a Deutsche Bank employee, which is an absolutely brilliant initiative to have if you are coming back from maternity leave and you do need a backup uh creche or a backup child care nursery to help you um, every now and then, um, and also a lot of ladies. It loved the fact that you said that you know what ladies. They're just as passionate and sometimes more passionate when they come back off of mat leave, and we've had guests on here before. Share that that they were very nervous about going on maternity leave and they came back, and they come back a different person, full of lots of different skills, because they were now a parent with lots of different soft skills.
Speaker 3:They didn't know they were going to learn yeah, exactly time management. I think I mean I'm not a parent, but like I can't imagine um, I mean I can imagine that you can become such a good so you can have so much skill and time management when you're back from you know maternity leave, because, yeah, having a kid and you know managing that is just very difficult and you can bring that skill to work. So I'm quite surprised that more workplaces don't support women coming back from maternity leave.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and some of them have said they got promotions after they came back and they were relieved that actually their company had thought you know what? We do not only want to retain you after Matt Lee, but promote you as well, and they become a very loyal employee. And so many of the parents we've had on here have said one of the other good skills they've learned is negotiation. They said I didn't know how much I'd have to negotiate with a child. They said I didn't know how much I'd have to negotiate with a child. And a lady said to me on here the other day I have to negotiate now on things that I didn't even know were negotiable, but that's how you now have to deal with young children.
Speaker 1:So you bring all of those things back into the workplace with you. If your company is very supportive of that, or you do move to find an environment that supports that, then you can see why, why ladies would stay at certain companies and move from others. Madskan, what about yourself? What do you think? What do you think about unsupportive work environments and how they they? They just add to that to the perception that women just don't want to work in tech.
Speaker 3:Agree, yeah, exactly. So I think I would echo everything Chanel said, but on top of that, I think, say that you know you're part of an unsupportive work environment. You come back after your maternity leave. You're obviously going to feel that maybe this is not for me. You're obviously going to try and take a career path that you feel is more suited to your routine with your family right, and that may or may not be in tech.
Speaker 3:So I think, if you see that so many women, when they reach a certain age like usually at the seniority levels, like vice presidents or assistant vice presidents, where you start seeing the decline slowly and I think a lot of that is to do with the fact that that sort of coincides with the time when most women are on maternity leave and unfortunately, if they come back to a workplace which is not supporting them, they end up leaving, and that sort of gives rise further to the misconception that they're just not interested so they're leaving. All they now want to do is another career. So I think, unfortunately, that adds on to the misconception. But the truth is it's not that they don't want to work in tech, it's that they need a supportive employer.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, exactly that, and especially when they are moving up to leadership roles. You've been in work for a little while and then you might be reaching that point in your life where you're starting a family or expanding a family and then you just feel that you can't be in leadership and and do everything that you want to do at home as well, unless your company is really going to help you with with with that, especially if you have young children and they do need looking after. I mean on that note, we spoke about that a little bit about has a crash, for instance, um, and supporting you when you come back from mat leave, um. But what about? What steps can be taken to address these misconceptions and create a more inclusive environment for women in the tech industry? I suppose a crash is a bonus if you've got one at your company, but are there any other steps that companies can take to try and make their environments more inclusive? Do you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. For instance, like you know, deutsche has a crash. So companies introducing tools or just entities that will allow parents to be able to do their jobs while also making sure that their family is well supported. So it's not about the fact that Deutsche has a crèche, so you should have a crèche. The idea is try and create an environment such that parents feel comfortable to come back to work and they're not constantly worried about their kid at home, and at home they're not worried about work. So I think that, truly, when you try and keep that goal in mind is when you try, when you're able to achieve an inclusive workplace. So I think, steps wise.
Speaker 3:I think the best would be to speak to your employees. I think the best would be to speak to your employees. Speak to managers, for instance, can speak to people going on maternity or paternity leaves and say how can I help? Do you want a more remote working arrangement? Do you want a hybrid working arrangement? Try and be flexible, because I think in this new world, post-covid, we know that a lot of work that we did in the office earlier can now be done online, at least for a short period of time, right? So try and offer hybrid working arrangement.
Speaker 3:I know Deutsche does that. So you know that's a great, that's a great idea. There you go. So you know, I, I personally, I would say it's something on a case by case basis. You can't, you can't generalize the fact that, okay, this is what parents need and this is what we're going to offer, and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. I think, on a personal level, managers can speak to their employees or, you know, your divisions can organize certain things for you, I think. Firstly, I think, like the whole hybrid working thing is such a great idea. Crash is a great idea Child care, anything that will make sure that parents are not worried about their kids at work and they're not worried about work at home.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. And Janelle, do you agree with that? You know, not just having a crush, but you know Muskan kind of expanded that a little bit is how parents feel and how they work every and um, whether or not they have a great work life balance. And I suppose it's not just for parents either, is it? You know it's, it's for, um, people that need to care for other people as well, and, um, you know there are there are lots of other aspects to creating an inclusive environment. Um, but, chanel, do you think that there are, uh, other steps that companies can take to address the misconceptions of women working in tech?
Speaker 2:I echo everything that Ms Khan said. I agree, whilst we have women in tech, we should aim to put everything in place to try and keep them there, so they're supportive, they don't look for another career path. But I also feel like steps can be taken before women are in these roles. So during the application process, how you advertise them for these roles, where you advertise them for these roles and sometimes women might read the job description and think this is not for me. I don't, I might not fit in here. From the benefits I said, I might feel like this is not what they want. So we also need to be thinking about how to appeal to women during the job advert stage. This can be also done through going to women's conferences, having women in tech from the organization going to these conferences, talking to other women, saying how, how the work environment is.
Speaker 1:I think that's quite important definitely yes, I, because I wanted to ask you about changing the narrative that women are inherently less interested in, uh, or capable in, tech fields and and you just mentioned it there that is a brilliant way for you know, ladies just to share their stories what it's actually like to speak at a conference, to come on a podcast, to, to just share their experience in their day-to-day experience, for more ladies to hear that and a lot of our community are transitioning from one career to another career and sometimes much later in their careers as well.
Speaker 1:Um, one of our top podcasts on here for for ages was um about a lady that retrained in her 30s and so many of our community wanted to hear how she done that and the challenges that she found along the way. Um, but to to for just for more people to share their stories about what it is like that you can transition into tech at any time, that whether you're a parent or not a parent, and that it is a flexible industry to be in, that the salaries can be good, the companies can be great, you can, there's travel opportunities and career progression, and the more ladies that talk about that the better, especially if you get offered, um, an opportunity to speak at the conference, for instance, um, and we can very, very slowly change the narrative um on that, um, musk, and what about yourself? How do you think we can change that, that narrative that women are inherently less interested or capable in tech fields?
Speaker 3:I think exactly what you said get more women to talk, and I know that sounds ridiculous to say, but I think the more number of times we give women a platform to speak about their experience in tech, the better it is, because it's not just about you know. It's great that someone in their 30s also trained. I think that's so inspirational. That's amazing to hear and I don't know how they did it, but if that person can inspire one other girl to take up a career in tech, I think that's a win. And I think start early as much as possible.
Speaker 3:So I remember I actually attended an event which Deutsche was invited to and it was for early careers and it was for women in tech.
Speaker 3:So there was people who you know, there were women who essentially were either at the end of school or just the beginning of university and they were trying to figure out whether tech was for them or not. And it was just a conference or you know a short event, let's say, where they spoke to people from different organizations, and a lot of times they did ask me that do you feel like, um, women can work in tech? And the fact that it's 2024 and I'm still receiving questions like that really surprised me. So I think the more we get people to talk about their experience, the better, because the more outreach we have, the earlier we start, the better it is, because it's not just about um like, it's not just that someone who got to know about tech and tried it was successful amazing. It's also about you know how can we actually increase our outreach and how can we make sure that young women don't feel like, oh, I can't be in tech, only for them to find out 10 years later that they're probably good?
Speaker 1:yes, you're right, it's 2024 and you're still getting those questions and even though you know this conversation has been going on some time, it's little by little and, yeah, you know, slowly moving the needle and you're right to still be getting those questions in 2024, we still need to be putting in the work and having the conversations. Um, and you're right, even if it, if it inspires one girl to to think a career in tech is for me, um then, then you know, give it a shot.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, yeah, exactly um we are almost out of time, ladies, and I wanted to ask you one last question, looking ahead what changes or developments do you hope to see in the tech industry to promote gender diversity and inclusion? Janelle, should we go to you, what do you hope?
Speaker 2:to see in terms of changes and developments for promoting gender diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 2:I hope to see more tech organizations going into schools and talking to kids. I think that we need to start from early and get the ideas in the children's minds that actually can have this career from a young age, especially coming from my experience when I was saying I felt being in tech was for nerds or quite nerdy. So the children can relate to someone, they can see someone that was like them and I think that's very important for children to have to have someone to aspire to be also in the tech industry. I wish to see um more women in leadership roles. I feel like even though tech has it has changed a lot to see more women coming in. I feel like we don't see that much women in leadership roles and I think that's very important. So other people don't think or women might not think oh well, I can only be at a junior level. They can know that they can be the head of the team or the head of the department and they can lead and they can do the same thing as other directors within the organisation.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and and you're absolutely right more ladies in leadership, um, and and ladies throughout the whole of um the pipeline as well. Because, um, it is sometimes difficult when, especially when you're new to a career and if you only have the lady that is the ceo or the the cto, it's hard to see how you're going to get there and whether or not that is even for you anyway. So you might be thinking who's the lady in the next position? In the next position? You know it's good. It can be quite hard to kind of try and align yourself with that very seniors, uh, c-suite lady sometimes.
Speaker 1:So I completely agree ladies in leadership and also just inspiring young girls from an early age to say these are the jobs available. You don't have to be a nerd to work in tech. If you are a nerd and you work in tech, that's cool too. That's cool. We can talk about data. That's cool. There are so many roles out there in technology that you don't have to go into the stereotypical um. Coding, working on your own kind of role is normally the role that people think of um, when, when, working in tech, and the more people that are screaming about that from the earlier the better. I completely agree. Um musk and yourself, what? What do you hope to see in terms of changes and developments? Uh, to promote greater diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, uh, like you said, try and change the misconception that is it's all about sitting behind a screen and just tapping away at your keyboard. That's not it. Um, you could literally be designing websites. You know that's ux design. You could be designing, um, your internal application system that is also ux design. You could be designing, um, your internal application system that is also ux design. You could be a business analyst. You could be a product donor. You could be literally so many different things in tech that there is absolutely no exhaustive list, um, or that you can't make an exhaustive list.
Speaker 3:So I think, first, yeah, clearing that misconception out. And secondly, um, there's something that deutsche does and I think that's so amazing is women who are in slightly more senior leadership positions. They offer mentorship to people in schools, so young women in schools. They're offered mentorship by senior VPs in DB, senior MDs in DB, and I think that's amazing. Mentorship by senior VPs in DB, senior MDs in DB and I think that's amazing. I think if you're getting that sort of exposure, you're getting the ability to be mentored by someone who is already in a position where you one day might aspire to be at such an early age. I think it's incredible, because that's the true example of how you can inspire the next generation of girls to be in tech, right?
Speaker 3:So I think, yeah, creating that environment or creating that pipeline where young women have the ability to speak to people who are actually working in industry and making sure that they are well supported, they are given knowledge about what it actually means to work in tech.
Speaker 3:So I think that's one, and another thing that could be maybe creating support groups. You know, um, having support groups and I think what you guys do I think actually can't what you guys do that thing great as well, because it's it's one form of outreach, right. And I think the more, the more people you reach, the better, because, um, that way you can make sure that people don't have, uh, misconceptions about tech and there won't be a 16 year old thinking, oh my god, I don't think I want to be a tech person, because I don't want to be a nerd, because you're not going to be a nerd exactly exactly that, and that is why, um, our community was started to share experiences, to share stories, to just bust that myth as to what it's like to work in tech, um, and for for ladies to share their stories on our podcast and within our community platform.
Speaker 1:Um, you, you're absolutely right and I love the fact. So you mentioned more senior ladies remembering as well to to look back and think you know, I'm going to lift a climb and make sure that I mentor the younger generations coming through as well, because without ladies doing that through each generation, then you know, the younger ladies behind are not going to consider technology as a career route for them. It's such a good point, ladies. I could keep talking to you about this all afternoon, but we are already out of time, so thank you so much. Chanel and muscan, thank you so much for joining me today, taking time out of your busy days to come and have a chat on spilling the tea. It's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you both.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much thank you so much thank you for everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
