SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Joining a company at a time of pivotal growth: How to succeed as a leader
Join us in this episode of Spilling the T as we sit down with Janet Robb, Director of Customer Enablement at ANS, to delve into the strategies and insights behind thriving as a leader during critical growth phases within an organization. With her extensive experience at the forefront of ANS’ customer enablement initiatives, Janet offers valuable perspectives on the key factors that contribute to successful leadership in the ever-evolving landscape of technology and business development.
Throughout the episode, we explore the challenges and opportunities that arise when stepping into a leadership role during a company's pivotal growth period, discussing the crucial balance between driving innovation, maintaining operational excellence, and fostering a culture of collaboration and adaptability. Janet shares her personal experiences and practical advice, highlighting the importance of building strong relationships, fostering a cohesive team environment, and aligning business strategies with the dynamic needs of the market.
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Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in again. I am Katie Batesman, the content director at SheCanCode, and today we are discussing joining a company at a time of pivotal growth how to succeed as a leader. Today we're going to explore the crucial balance between driving innovation, maintaining operational excellence and fostering a culture of collaboration and adaptability. I've got the incredible Janet Robb, director of Customer Enablement at ANS, with me. Today we're going to dive into the strategies and insights behind thriving as a leader during critical growth phases within an organization. Welcome, janet. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Thank you for taking some time out of your day to come and have a chat with she Can Code. Can we kick off with a little bit of background about you, a little bit of context about yourself and how you got into tech and how you ended up where you are? Sure?
Speaker 2:sure. So hopefully some of your listeners will have picked up that I'm from Belfast, with my lovely accent, and I still live in Belfast. I am a remote worker for ANS and actually the other day I managed to get from the plane taking off to being on my sofa in 55 minutes, but that's for a different podcast because it wasn't. You know there was no time machine required, but it was. You know I can get there quite quickly. So I got into tech because in the era so I'm four, I've just had my 48th birthday.
Speaker 2:So I was in tech in my late nineties and there was a boom. There was a boom in tech in the nineties and there was a lack of skills and I thought, ooh, there could be some money in that and I never wanted to do tech and I didn't think I was very good at it, but that's what I did. I really wanted to work in HR. I love people. So I suppose I've now combined the two things that I learned to love in tech and people with working with a customer and enabling customers in tech.
Speaker 1:And it's nice. So many ladies I talk to on here say I fell into tech. I didn't know I wanted to go into tech, it's just. It is the thing about the tech industry, and did you think that it had to be computer science, that you had to be really technical? And actually when you got in you thought why didn't I even think of this as a career before?
Speaker 2:Oh my, God, I hated it, Absolutely hated it. I'm dyslexic and I now wear my dyslexia as a badge of honour. Being dyslexic in the 90s at school was seen as stupid and it was not talked about and it was really, really difficult. So I've spent most of my life trying to fight that. You're stupid, you know. I've got over it now, but I used to have a recurring dream about doing my GCSEs. I'll just leave it with.
Speaker 2:It's hard to leave a grammar school with no qualifications and I managed to do that. So I wasn't expected to be anything other than working in a shop and, by the way, I always liked working in a shop because I got to talk to people all day. But when I then thought, thought, oh, I might be able to get into tech, it was always tech, it was coding, it was engineering. When I went to do a conversion course post my degree which was a miracle, I got my degree I was given a set of screwdrivers on my first day and I thought, oh, my god, what have I walked into like? I can't hang a picture.
Speaker 2:So, yes, tech was tech, tech was coding and, as I've mentioned, I'm dyslexic. And, yeah, that wasn't a good combo because it was proper coding. It was proper, not as it is nowadays, where it's a lot more configurable point and click, drop downs. It was literally you had to know what every variable was and I expected it to be technical and that was it. That was going to be my life, and I think I just accepted that I was going to be miserable for the rest of my life because it did not fit my personality in any shape or form.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean it's awful to hear you say that if I'm just going to accept that, I was going to be miserable my whole life, which is why Spilling the Tea started. We just love to share careers, tech careers, what they're like, that there's a whole range of things, that things are very different nowadays and that you can be in tech and just do lots of different, lots of different things and lots of different disciplines. So, yeah, it's great to have you on here to share your story as well, that you thought that about tech, which is, you know, a lot of people still do think that's what tech is going to be like, which is a shame.
Speaker 2:Yes, very much so.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk a little bit about being a successful leader today, so can you share any memorable success stories or challenges that you faced in your current role that have shaped your leadership approach?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so I have joined ANS quite recently and it is in a massive stage of growth, okay, and when you join an organization in this stage of growth, it is in a stage of I suppose flux is a word that we might all understand, because when we're changing, the ground isn't as stable as we first knew it to be, and I specialize in change management and the enablement of organizations to go through change. So when people are, people's emotions can be fraught. People's emotions can I always like to watch people's emotions, because it's never what is portrayed is really the underlying feeling. So it's yeah, usually when somebody's cross, they're frightened. You know, that's one of my key signals. Why are they frightened? And you have to ask the famous five whys. So I've joined ANS and ANS I'm just going to call out I've been very brave, been very brave employing me, not because I'm, you know, a serial killer or anything that what I mean is the title of customer director, of customer enablement, it's you don't see many of them about, and the reason I'm proud of them is because because they've recognized in their state of their change that to be successful within a tech industry now it's not the tech. The tech works and it's shiny and it's brilliant and, yeah, we might screw up every now and again or you know, by connecting one API connector incorrectly, that kind of thing, but it's the people that are using the tech that make it successful and that is my role.
Speaker 2:So joining an organization in a brand new role, in a state of increased growth oh my goodness, they are thriving is is hard. It's hard because I have to find my identity and convince leaders who've been in the organization a long time that my role is desperately needed and valuable, as the C-level staff have agreed that it is. I have to build my own division and my own department to focus primarily on enablement. I am the, you know, I'm the tap on the back of the head that won't stop the drip. That won't stop dripping. I am the person that says and how are we going to ensure that this is enabled for our customers? We might come up with this amazing process, but if we don't ensure that it's enabled correctly within our customers to avail of that process, it's not going to work. So it has been difficult.
Speaker 2:I have to say it's been. It's been at times you might want to cut this bit I don't know what to say here, but it has been difficult but I have thrived with it. Um, because the lovely thing I've enjoyed is I've enjoyed convincing people that my role is necessary. And the wonderful thing is I do a whole presentation about how people change and I don't talk tech in it. You know, I talk about my cat in it, because that's another story we might bring up. But I have convinced other leaders within our organisation to start putting the enablement lens on everything they do. So now a lot of my SLT members are coming to me and saying, janet, you know what you were talking about, that I think I need you to help me to help our customers. So it's been lovely to be an influencer within ANS to change the lens from tech to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which that takes quite a unique person to want to do that as well, Because I know from not just talking to people on this podcast, but actually people I've worked with in the past. You kind of reach a crossroads in your career where you think do I want to work with people or do I want to work with product or whatever it is that your company is selling or building or whatever that is, and you have to make that decision because if you want to work with people, you want to manage people or you want to look after them that people are so unpredictable and it takes a certain person to think, do I want to do that? And a certain person that has all those skills to be able to manage that? I'm assuming that that's a huge challenge for you daily that people are just so unpredictable.
Speaker 2:Very much so, and that's also what I love about it. But the thing with me is I said, you know, I was going to be miserable for the rest of my life because I had to be a coder. I've discovered obviously that's not true. You don't get to be miserable for the rest of your life. And that's obviously not been the case, because what I discovered that tech does is I see it as the product and the output of the improvement that it brings to people. So I do love a product. I love I work within the tech industry quite quite deeply still within dynamics, customer relationship, management systems, power platform, all of those things but I see them as wonderful tools that help people achieve success. So I still work with product. I still understand the gains that a product can give me, but I adore working with the people and love seeing them be successful. The first question I ask any customer is would success mean to you? And therefore we're starting on a different footing. It's on a let's look at our end results.
Speaker 1:let's look at what the we're going to achieve rather than how we're going to do that in that journey yeah, yeah, and it's so important as well that because you know that and you're working on those skills every day and it gets easier working with people, obviously, but sometimes, when things go wrong, that's when you really see what a person is like or, for instance, how your team internally might either pull together or turn against each other, or how they work with the customer, and is is one of those challenges as well. You know what happens when things go wrong. How do you, how do you deal with those as a leader?
Speaker 2:absolutely, things do go wrong and they're people still from childhood don't want to be responsible for something going wrong. Okay, but things do go wrong and things can go wrong. I've done things wrong, I'm sure you've done things wrong, and it's how we, how the culture within the organisation, responds to let's use the word mistakes or errors. If you have you embed a culture of wrong, you get into trouble. Then people are either going to that will influence how people behave when something goes wrong, okay. So if the culture is a hard culture where, um, you're going to get yelled at, shouted at x, y and z, people will will either not admit they were wrong, people will, um, pass the buck, say no, it wasn't me, it was so, so and so, and that then increases an animosity of a culture. So if we can create a culture that it's safe to be humans and safe to make a mistake and safe to stand up and admit the mistake and safe to learn from it, that creates actually a culture. A mistake is a learning opportunity then, rather than a fearful opportunity, and embedding a culture of safety as a leader and saying, ok, we've all done it, don't worry, let's work out what the you know from Northern Ireland. What the what, what, what crack happened that stopped this working, et cetera, et cetera. That becomes a supportive culture, et cetera, et cetera. That becomes a supportive culture.
Speaker 2:Yes, so it's really, really important as a leader, to be human, to say we've all made mistakes, we can all be a bit of a plonker. Nobody ever got out of bed deliberately to muck something up, or actually people probably have, but not my team. There's a few. There's a few, but not my team. So a few, there's a few, but not my team. So the culture of making a mistake is okay, okay and learning from it is a plus. But a culture that doesn't embody that becomes a negative culture and a place where I don't like to be.
Speaker 1:Yes, especially if it's from the top down. You're absolutely right. If you don't see that from the top down and you see leadership making mistakes but they're getting away with things or they're not owning up or they're not even announcing to the company you know that's my responsibility then everybody else lower down the ranks they're going to think exactly the same thing, and that's not something that is achieved in a week. It's something that's just ingrained in a leadership team and a company and a culture, as you said. Yeah, I agree On that note. In your experience, what are the essential leadership qualities and skills that are most critical for effectively managing and leading teams during periods of transfer? Transformative growth within a tech organization? God, that's a question and a half, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's a loaded question.
Speaker 2:A loaded question so here's the thing as a leader and leaders in an organization, we're all just normal people, so it's the skill set that those individuals portray. So let me give you an example. If you're incredibly stressed and incredibly busy and you run in and out of a meeting room and go, I'm really really stressed and I'm really really busy, did it? That's going to invoke a culture of we always have to be stressed and busy to be seen to be active, and that's not true. When I'm stressed and busy to be seen to be active, and that's not true. When I'm stressed and busy, my productivity goes into the toilet. So I need you know nobody works well when we're stressed and busy, but there's times in life as a leadership team, we can be, but that is we must ensure and portray that it's a bit like the swan. You can be stressed and busy, but you don't let it show. It's a bit like the swan. You can be stressed and busy but you don't let it show, because our role and our activities and our the way we behave will filter down, and that's that's the job of a leader to protect the people below you from anything that is going to affect how they work on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I really hopefully strive with is I love, I love a good chat at the coffee machine. Um, I like, actually I prefer, a cup of tea myself. I, I want to always be approachable, regardless of my, my title, and I mean regardless. Um, I know some of my best mates are in INS or my friends, the people that know my name and all the rest have various different roles and I love to see them coming in and hearing what they did at the weekend as much as anybody else. And it's making sure that you are always containing to be approachable, because that way you get to hear what's really happening, because that way you get to hear what's really happening.
Speaker 2:And if you know what's really happening, people use the phrase um, uh, feedback or um, getting feedback. It's. It's understanding what's really happening on the ground floor is the only way you can fix something. So resistance to change, which happens, and in a high speed, growth, organization resistance is there because we don't like change as people. But I tell people to embody resistance because when you allow yourself to hear it, you can do something about it, you can educate, you can inform, you can make sure that your messages are more on point, so allowing yourself, as a leader, to be able to hear the negativity, the fear, the worry. It's important that we hear that and not just the sunflower stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right that you hear it. You know you're making a coffee. Somebody walks up to you and tells you rather than through a Chinese whispers and then you get a strange version of a story that is actually nothing like what that team is dealing with. I love the fact that you mentioned a swan. We see something similar at she Can Code about swans and that you're chugging away under the water, but on the surface we're very graceful. We say the same. I dance, and in ballet we always say we have that ballerina smile, but my feet are bleeding, but on the surface you're smiling, everything is fine. That doesn't mean to say that sometimes, when you are stressed and things are wrong that you can't ever share and that you always have to you know, show that everything is fine, but there is, you are right.
Speaker 1:Sometimes there is a time, especially when you're a leader, running in and out of a meeting stressed makes everybody else feel stressed Also, like you said I thought there it makes you feel like you always have to be on all the time as well. It makes people think I have to work 24 seven because there's not enough hours in the day and that your team don't get quality time to just switch off um and and uh, regenerate after you know. Maybe a holiday or or certain teams I've been on and I feel like a week, a week's holiday is not enough to come down sometimes because you're in that constant stress mode, um, where you know you really, really do need that time out. Um, I want to talk to you a little bit about women women in leadership. So women are underrepresented in leadership roles, especially in tech. What should be done to increase the number of women in leadership? Do you think?
Speaker 2:oh well, I'll just get on my soapbox, because this is this is my, this is my thing, this is my thing. Oh, wow, okay, so we have. Everybody has to do better first of all. Yeah, and how do we do better? So I'm just going to give you it's okay to give you a bit more of a backstory on why I'm so obsessed with women in the organization. Because I'm obsessed because one I'm 48 and my most of my job, my career, have always been with men and I love working with men. Great crack, no issues with working men at all. But when you get women and men working together, wow, you get better, better systems, better gender focused systems. Oh, my goodness, because guess what us women are more than 50 percent of population. Right, we're about, and we need women in leadership. We need women in tech industries because without that, they don't have a voice and they don't. Whatever we're producing, naturally through unconscious bias, and many reasons and perspectives don't include women, and it's not deliberate trust, and it's not deliberate, trust me, it's not deliberate, but the best perspective on a woman is a woman in leadership.
Speaker 2:So many years ago, I started a conference. I believe that learning should be free for everybody and everybody should have the opportunity and I hope it's okay to say my first conference that I ran on my own was in Dublin and it was for a hundred people. People tell me it wouldn't work and yeah, yeah it did. I love that smugness. And the tickets were sold out within three days and I put a picture on Facebook and I hope it's okay to say. A girl who I'd studied with looked at the picture. She was now living in England and she went not many bras in that room is there, and I hadn't even clocked it because I was the woman, I was the leader, I was at the front of the room, I was euphoric at this event and I suddenly started to count and I had five women and I hadn't clocked it because I was on a high. Yeah, so I then I then you're also quite used to seeing that.
Speaker 1:Just yeah, until you look and you think actually yeah, there isn't enough women.
Speaker 2:It had become my unconscious bias because I was normally surrounded by men that I didn't really go looking for the girls because, no, they weren't there. So every conference I did from then on in I would hold back tickets because the tickets would go like that and I wanted to ensure that women had a place. And the one of the other stories I'm going to add to this is one of the reasons I need women in there is I'm a confident person, I'm an energetic person, but I went to an event before I did my conference and I realized there was myself and there was one other lady and she didn't look anything like me. She looked like she, you know, she was really into the tech, and I was in a floral dress and I'd realized that I was standing at the back of the room with a saucer and I wasn't talking to anybody and I was like what, what has happened to you? You know, internally thinking what, why have you silenced yourself? Because I didn't see myself in that, that room. I didn't feel that I had a place in that room. And that's one of the reasons I continue to focus on women in in tech and created the, the, the um, the strap line. The door is open and all I did was take pictures of women at the event and saying you, you don't want to, you don't want to come on your own, you be my buddy for the day or I'll put you with a buddy for the day. I want you to understand that it's an okay place to be.
Speaker 2:Now we have women very few women as leaders in the tech industry. We need to make a conscious, conscious effort to find them. Why? Because women, when they see the jobs applied, this is what women do. We go down every flipping list and go, yeah, got that, got that, got that. Oh, haven't got that, I'm going to go back, I'll not apply, don't have those two things. And a man majority of men will go oh, haven't got that, haven't got that, but got that, I'll apply. So we need to encourage women passionately to go look, there's this job. I think you'd be fabulous at it. I know you feel that you don't have the confidence, but to support them and mentor them into feeling that they do have a place at that table, because when they get a place at the table, it is brilliant for the entire organization.
Speaker 1:So the onus is on us to encourage, to support to point out Sometimes something is so obvious and a woman will walk past it because they just don't see that they have a place at that table and they flipping do and we need them definitely I love everything you just said, because yesterday I was only yesterday I was talking to a lady who said to me I went to apply for a job and I thought I can do everything, but the only thing she couldn't do was C++, and it was going to be a test where she had to do C++ in the interview process. So she learned C++ in two weeks, went for the interview and passed and they said even though you've only just learned it, we just love the fact that you were upfront, that you wanted to learn, that you'd learn really fast. We just love everything about you. Because you didn't meet all of our criteria, but who cares?
Speaker 1:So they hired her and since then they've trained her up in everything they needed and they just grabbed hold of the fact that she was great talent and was just so willing to learn new things. And she, you know, it was kind of if she hadn't just thought to herself you know what? I'm just going to go for it. I'm just going to see what comes out of it. Then, yes, so many ladies just talk themselves out of even applying for a role in the first place.
Speaker 2:The best thing about anybody, whether you're a man or women in an organization, is passion. And if you have somebody with passion and desire because you can't teach that comes within the soul you can teach them C++. You can teach them the bit that they don't have. But wouldn't you want to have an organization with people that was full of passion and energy and desire to make an organization better? And we need to instill that in women, because we still think we're a checklist and passion is the most wonderful skill that women have in abundance and we don't value it.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, and they noticed that in her and moved her from Korea and said you come over to London, we're going to move you, we're going to take care of everything. Because, you're right, they noticed that passion, they noticed that she would just grab hold of the opportunity and she did. And on that, could you share some of your insights on the strategies that you've implemented to foster a culture of collaboration and adaptability within your team? Because it sounds like that you look for people that are passionate, that are going to be, you know, lead from the front. They're not going to be just like managers coming in and doing their their day-to-day. You're looking for people that are um, gonna, you know, help to help you to foster a culture of collaboration yeah, and one of the good things is, um, I will answer that question.
Speaker 2:But one of the good things that we within ans is that we've recognized that we need to sometimes support women in achieving those goals of climbing the ladder. Um, and actually, before I joined the company, that was one of my first requests. We have an amazing chief people officer people officer called toria, and before I agreed to join, I was I'd asked for a meeting meeting with her and she gave me 30 minutes. She didn't. She gave me an hour and a half for time. The woman was beyond busy and she dedicated that time to me to explaining the approach that she was going to take within the organization to ensure that we grew an organization of equality and that women had a voice within her organization. So we have amazing women's groups. We have we're not having international women's day, we're having international women's month and we have activities month on month, on month on month, and we are and it's not just work related, because you know, women have different bodies to men and it is everybody's talking about menopause etc. Which is fantastic um, so we ensure that those needs are equally catered for and all women's needs are catered for within the organization.
Speaker 2:But one of the things within my team is ensuring that passion equality is across the board. Passion is across the board that if somebody has an issue or concern that my door is open and people do that all an issue or concern that my door is open. And people do that all the time and say, well, my door is open. And how do you make sure that people feel that their door is open to come and speak to you, that I show my vulnerabilities, I have difficulties, I'm dyslexic. The bottom of my email it says they'll probably be missing words here. If you need clarity, let me know.
Speaker 2:Um, I've shared stories. I have a right-sided facial palsy, I have difficulty speaking, I get tired talking sometimes and sometimes I find it upsetting because I'm on camera. There's lots of reasons, but I've shown that I I'm not infallible, that I have as many difficulties as they have. That and by sharing my vulnerabilities, that they encourage them to be who they are and can come to me for confidence, for mentorship Another thing we do in ANS which I freaking love. I get as much out as the mentors get it. We get paired with an individual within your organization and as being a senior leadership member and wow, I have really enjoyed mentoring.
Speaker 1:I've actually a lady this year and it's just been wonderful to watch her grow, to watch her confidence grow and ensuring that not just mentoring her but that I'm available to the rest of my team yes, and and I was thinking of the word authentic, as you were saying that people, your team know if you're not being authentic as well and you're not bringing your authentic self, and I think it's just something that good teams just that they, they can feel that from their leader and they think you know what, if you're, you're authentic, I can be authentic and I can also get behind everything that you're saying, because I feel like you're really telling me the truth in everything and I'm going to get behind you and we're going to make this work. So I couldn't agree more. Do you have any advice for aspiring leaders who are stepping into pivotal roles within their companies? Is there anything that you wish that you had been told by somebody before you stepped into a leadership role?
Speaker 2:I always felt because, remember, I joined in the 90s that a leader was a mold of this type of person, so authoritarian, maybe a slightly aggressive, that kind of mold, old school mold and therefore I didn't see myself as that person, because that's not me. I love a laugh, I love a belly laugh, I'm energetic and confident, but that means sometimes you have to take the equally emotional side of me with that. You know. Know there's pros and cons to to energy, and I felt that that wasn't, that wasn't who I was and therefore couldn't be that person. And realizing I wish I'd realized sooner that my voice had value, that I could still belly laugh, I could still wear my jeans and the top with the Chinese spilt down the top and nobody really minded because I'd forgotten to wash it that I was allowed to be me. At ANS we have a lot of ED&I groups. We have a group called the swirl club and the squirrel club is our neural spicy group that thrive on the fact that everybody's different, and another one that they use a lot is be you, be you. There's not another one person in the world like me and, um, there's not another person like you, and therefore that makes life very interesting and brings a lot of different spices to the table. And if I had known sooner in my career that being me was just OK. In fact it was pretty damn great Because I was different that I wish I would have moved sooner I sat in a role.
Speaker 2:The other thing I want to let you know, kitty, is people think it's a straight line to a career in leadership. Are you having a giraffe? No, it's not. I only really have succeeded in my career in the last 10 years. People I'm 48. So around the age of 36, 37, people think you have to be brilliant from the start or know where you're going from the start. You can move into leadership at any age. At any age. If you have the ability and the desire and the passion, you can do it. And don't think by the time you've got to 40 or 48 that your time's passed. Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:It's not not a straight line, it's kind of wiggly and sometimes it can accelerate in in bursts at any point in your life and you do emulate as well the the leaders that have come before you, and you're all right to um use the word aggressive, and that is what we see a lot. That's a stereotypical leader, especially if you sat around certain teams, if you sat near a sales team, they might be, they might sound very aggressive and very convincing and you're looking at them thinking you know what? I can't ever do this or that's just not me, and that's okay as well. I mean the conversations I've had with ladies on this podcast about they got into a role and they thought everybody looked at them as if they were to know everything.
Speaker 1:Now, because they're a leader and I think everybody's going to ask me questions and I'm meant to know everything because I now look after everyone and how wrong they were when they realized you know, you just settle in, you have a, you don't have to know everything, you can find your own style and that is okay. And that is, like you said as well, usually what your company is looking to you to do, to bring you and your unique perspective, because if you just keep doing what everybody else is doing, then the company doesn't learn, your team doesn't learn, you don't move forward. You, you are um so right. That's such good advice just to be you and be confident in you and and know that sometimes, yeah, I make mistakes, but I'm gonna keep moving forward, everything's gonna be fine the best leader I ever had.
Speaker 2:Um, and he'd be shocked. It was a lovely manager called Robert and I'd come up with this idea. I used to work at an airport and used to be the airport call lady and, by the way that is, you know quite I learned more skills about people working in that airport than I learned in my entire career. Yeah, and it was. It was in the days when you could shout at people. Those were the days and, um, anyway, I had this whole idea about doing a presentation about a delayed flight and I'd practiced it.
Speaker 2:I'm a big storyteller and I practiced and practiced and I went in and I said to him and he was really busy and his head was down I said, robert, I've got this idea, it's a bit odd and I would like to do it at this event. And he looked irritated at me and he looked up and he said, and he put his pen down and he said Janet, and he sighed, he really looked fed up with me and he went I employed you to be you. Will you please go away and be you and don't ask me for permission again? And, oh my God, that one, one statement. I walked out of that office like a giant, an absolute giant, and from that moment on, all of my presentations are completely off the ball. Um, they're completely random and they have all gone down a storm. And because he said, I employed you to be you, go and be you yeah.
Speaker 1:And then he said don't ask me for permission as well, because you are right, we do think that I have to ask for permission to be myself, which is just yeah, and nine times out of ten. I mean it's not, um, it's also. It's not an arrogance thing to think you know what if, if, if you don't like it, I'm going to go elsewhere. Sometimes it's just finding a company where you fit, a culture that works like. That all takes time as well.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you find there's a bit of a pull and you can't be your authentic self. That's not usually because you know, you think it's my way or the highway. It might just be that you haven't quite found a culture that you fit into or a company that you're kind of really aligned with, their mission or whatever it may be. And you're right, that path sometimes is very squiggly. It's not a straight path and you do really have to find your own way. But that is brilliant advice. I could keep talking to you about this for much, much longer, but we are already out of time, um. But, jenny, thank you so much for coming and having a chat today.
Speaker 2:It's been an absolute pleasure I've loved it and thank you for the opportunity, because women do need help end of story and therefore we, as women, we need to support one another, and that's my mission yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:That is a lovely note to end it on for today. So thank you very much, and thank you to everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
