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SheCanCode's Spilling The T
SheCanCode's Spilling The T
Empowering voices: Insights from Thought Machine's female engineering interns
In this episode, we delve into the dynamic world of engineering through the lens of four remarkable women who traversed Thought Machine's internship program. Join us as we uncover their unique journeys.
Kia Popat, Daphnee Brunschwig, Chengcheng Xing, and Melisa Copur are all Software Engineers at Thought Machine. They talk candidly about their experiences, from overcoming challenges to seizing opportunities, they illuminate the triumphs and tribulations of their internship at Thought Machine.
Discover firsthand the collaborative culture and innovative ethos that define life at Thought Machine. Gain insights into the projects that ignited their passion and the mentors who guided their growth.
Whether you're an aspiring engineer, a seasoned professional, or simply curious about the inner workings of tech companies, this episode offers an inspiring narrative of resilience, empowerment, and innovation.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone. Thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Batesman, the Content Director at she Can Code, and today we're discussing Empowering Voices Insights from Thought Machines Female Engineering Interns. We're going to delve into the dynamic world of engineering through the lens of four remarkable women who have been through Thought Machines internship program. Welcome, ladies. There are lots of you on here today, so we're very lucky to have all four of you. I have with me Kia, Daphne, Cheng Cheng and Melissa, and we're going to go around now and give a little bit of context about each of you, if that is okay to set the scene for our ladies today. Kia, can we start with you? Can you tell us a little bit about you, how you fell into tech and a bit about your background?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I did the Thought Machine Summer Internship Programme last summer and I did my degree in Electrical Engineering at Imperial College. So my degree was kind of it was actually Electrical Information Engineering, which is kind of a mix between CS and Engineering. So I kind of got to experience a little bit of both in that. So yeah, that's kind of how I fell into tech.
Speaker 1:Amazing, did you? Did you always love tech, or is that something that carried you along the way?
Speaker 2:So it's something I kind of got more interested in, kind of after GCSEs. So I kind of started doing a bit of stuff with like robotics, which was what influenced me to actually apply for engineering at university, and then I kind of found a love for coding when I actually joined university and started doing a bit more of it.
Speaker 1:Amazing. We're gonna dip into that a little bit more in a second, into everybody's backgrounds, actually in a second um Daphne, a little bit about you please hi, yeah, so my name is Daphne.
Speaker 3:I'm 21, uh, born and raised in France and I did a degree of computer science with management at King's College London. And I wasn't originally drawn to tech, I was just very into math and problem solving and actually my mom inspired me to pursue a degree in computer science. She worked for a French tech company called Capgemini, I don't know if yes, yes, I've worked with them a lot.
Speaker 1:They're a brilliant company, catcher, and I yeah, they're very nice.
Speaker 3:Also um and um. So yeah, I did, uh, the computer science degree. Um, really loved it, really liked like the feeling of you know being part of the future.
Speaker 1:That made me want to go into tech it's lovely to hear that your mum inspired you that is what we love to hear on this podcast women inspiring other women, especially mothers inspiring their daughters. So that's nice, melissa yourself.
Speaker 4:Hi, yeah, Melissa. I was born in Istanbul, Turkey, and I moved in to London for uni in 2020. I studied computer science at UCL and graduated in 2023. I had an internship at Top Machine in the summer of 2022, which I really enjoyed. I really loved it and the reason I wanted to study computer science at uni was that I wasn't into tech at all when I started high school. But then in the first year, my IT teacher kind of wanted me to join the robotics club and I was like I don't know any coding, I cannot do that. And she's like, no, you can do it because, like, I saw you in the computer science classes and you're really good, you can do it. And she kind of forced me into it and I really really enjoyed robotics club and yeah. So with that I kind of started trusting myself. With that, I kind of started believing in myself. So, yeah, I decided to study computer science.
Speaker 1:Amazing, that's nice. Yeah, when somebody really pushes you in that area Because so many ladies on here they have said something similar I wasn't really drawn to it and there might have been something about your classes at school that made me just thought you know what? Maybe this isn't for me, but if somebody really pushes you in that direction and says, you know why don't you just give it a try? Thankfully, you fell in love with it and here you are today, fabulous, and, last but not least, we have Cheng Cheng. Can you tell us a little bit about you?
Speaker 5:OK, hi, I'm Chengeng and I'm from china. I come to uk for study at 2021 and I studied computer science at the university of nottingham, and I'm also one of the return intern from thought machine and I'm currently working as a back engineer here incredible.
Speaker 1:So you? You came all the way from China to study over here. Was there something about that? Did somebody encourage you to come over here and take up a career in technology?
Speaker 5:major at a very young age, like you can just pursue in the technology field or you can just do some literature or art. So I've been choosing technology since middle school because I'm really into it and both my parents are doing the technology related works, so they also inspire me to pursue my career.
Speaker 1:Amazing again, another one generational, that's lovely to hear Again another one generational. That's lovely to hear, fabulous. So, ladies, we have so much to discuss today, so we're going to get right into it. I wanted to ask you all first a little bit about why did you apply for an internship and why were you looking for an internship that drew you to apply, to thought machines compared to other internships that were out there.
Speaker 3:Thought machines compared to other internships that were out there.
Speaker 3:Well, I was pretty much surrounded with people that were older than me during my second year, so to me it was like common knowledge that you need to do an internship to gain experience so that later your employers you know every employer, every like LinkedIn post for a new job asks for experience and internships are the least you can get as a student, right?
Speaker 3:So I already knew I needed to do an internship in my second year. I didn't really know at the time. Return offers were a thing because I'm from France and I feel like in Paris it's not so much of a thing, or at least I knew then. So I was more applying for the experience and to kind of broaden my knowledge, get like hands-on on what I've been learning at uni, trying to consolidate like everything I've learned, put things together, learn new tools and come back at uni you know, like more motivated because I know more and maybe I'll get a bit more advanced for my third year, stuff like that. And actually I discovered a whole new world, like the workplace and being a software engineer, and yeah it was.
Speaker 1:It was really nice, really refreshing yeah, yeah, that's nice that you saw the positive things as well, that you know a lot of employers really just love you to have to have some work experience and to pick up all those things. Um, in the first place, did you um, out of curiosity? Did you find that anyone um was, was against you going for an internship? Was there anybody that was kind of saying you know what, just go for your first job and you know, just to see what that's like? Or were people really positive and said you know what? There are so many benefits to an internship. You should, you should go for it.
Speaker 3:I think there is not one single soul that told me it was a bad idea or that it was good to anything else.
Speaker 3:Like a lot of my friends also said, like you're very brave for spending your summer working, you know when you're out and about in the sun and everything. But I mean, to me it's always been very important to get the tools to build your career, so it I didn't love it at all. Also, what attracted me by Thought Machine was that it was a so-called startup. I'm quoting so-called startup because you know 500 employees do you really consider that a startup anymore? But I know that in smaller companies people have bigger responsibilities and that was what I was kind of looking for. You know, not having just like a computer and doing those, like getting coffees and printing stuff and you know, like an actual internship where you get a project and you know people are actually going to pay attention to you and you have a name and, yeah, that was also something I was looking for, that I thought that machine could bring to me yes, amazing, I agree.
Speaker 1:Instead of shedding paper, um for for out your day for somebody and getting a coffee, um being a startup, you really do. It is a baptism of fire. So, yeah, you're bang on finding a good company like that. Yeah, um, melissa yourself. Why did you apply for an internship and and were you? What were you looking for when? Um you applied at thought machine, compared to other internships?
Speaker 4:so basically I agree with Daphne in all terms, um the re. So in the start of second year I already decided that I want to do an internship. Uh, it wasn't something I was I hadn't done before. I did it in high school. Um, when I was going to like the last year, when I, just before starting my last year in high school, I did some like software engineering internships as well. So for me in uni it was like a must. It's not like a must set by others, but it was a must set by me.
Speaker 4:So after I decided that I wanted to do an internship, then I started searching the internship opportunities and for me I found Top Machine's internship application on LinkedIn, and I really love the fact that it was not only a fintech company but also a fintech company that was working on cloud as well, and so we all know that cloud has been a very like um high tech, like new, like technologies, new um thing that has started in the last decade.
Speaker 4:So I really wanted to explore that area of tech as well. So that was um, that that was what made me, uh, want to actually um, actually apply in the first place. And then in the internship, I actually loved the fact that we all got a different project and we got to work on different projects and then the company and the whole people actually used our project after we left. So that was a really nice thing that Top Machine did. And I know for a fact that not every company does that Most of the companies just give you a project like it's a coursework and everyone works on the same project but everyone has a different outcome and it's like okay, well done, but they don't use it anywhere else. So yeah, I was really happy with Top Machine internship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you're given a lot of responsibility to work on projects that are actually used. Like Daphne said, you're not just going for an internship where you haven't really done much, you haven't really learned much, you've barely met anybody in the company, let alone then use your projects at the end. So that's nice, that must be. That must have been quite daunting, but quite yeah it actually taught a lot.
Speaker 4:Like for me that um 10 weeks a thought machine, I think um it taught me more than like the whole year at UCL, probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, yeah. Definite reason that why you should take an internship, changing yourself. What drew you to pursue an internship and what drew you to thought machines?
Speaker 5:Yeah, so when I was studying in a university so I was doing computer science in my major, but I just feel like the classes that taught by the lecturer are more about the concept. So there's like very limited chance I can put what I've learned at school into practice, except for the maybe two or three big coursework we have every semester. So I really wanted more chance to try what I've learned myself and see how all those theories I've learned from school can be used in real life. So that's why I decided to apply for a summer internship during my second year, so just to get a taste of what a real job feel like yes, I suppose as well, just what the workplace feels like there's.
Speaker 1:There's politics that you almost have to learn when you go into the workplace and you don't know all of that at university. Yeah, exactly, even you know what you learn, like you said, that practical side of putting into practice what you actually learn at uni. But even just being in an office and navigating everything that comes to being in work, yeah, was there something about Thought Machines internship that really drew you to it when you were looking for which one to go for?
Speaker 5:yeah. So I've been applying for several internship program at a time and I choose thought machine because it's like, uh, one of the place I could. I feel like I can be myself working here and I can actually learn something from here, because most of the internship program that I'm applying for them they're either using, like ai to do the interview or it just as melissa has told before, they just gave you like a big project for everyone to working on, so you can not really learn something from it. But I remember when I was doing my um second interview I thought machine.
Speaker 5:I was very nervous because I was asking about what if I have some skills that I'm not familiar with and can I just stay working here if I don't know the thing you listed on the hiring website? And I remember the interviewer reassured me and he said that it's all good and I will learn what I needed on this job in the future, so I don't need to worry about that. So they said they won't. They wasn't expecting a student who's still studying in a university to be a pro straight after all the school. So that thing that just make me really comfortable to join this company to do the internship program yeah, there are some companies who just grab hold of good talent, even if you don't know everything.
Speaker 1:I had a lady on this podcast who said to me I went for an interview and they needed me to do c++, and I didn't know c++ and I learned two weeks before and I barely just passed. And the company that she was interviewing for didn't care. They just love the fact that she learned that for her interview and said you're just somebody that loves to learn new things, so we're going to hire you and train you up in everything that we need, because we know you're very new, but it's just just showing that you're willing to learn and soak everything up like a sponge um. So they obviously grabbed hold of you and just said yes, come on board and we'll teach you everything that that anything that you're missing um, is usually a sign of a really good companies. Um, kia yourself. What about you? Why? Why did you pick an internship and why did you pick thought machine?
Speaker 2:yes. So, as I was saying, obviously kind of decided to an internship to see whether software engineering was the right career for me. Obviously, I kind of thought it was something that I was really interested in, but I wanted to kind of double check that, rather than waiting to like go into the real world and have a real first job and then potentially find out that I don't like it. So that's kind of why I wanted an internship. Obviously, the people around me, like most of them, were like applying and I was like, oh yeah, okay, fine, this is a thing people do, like I should probably do it too. Um yeah, so that's kind of why I was looking for an internship.
Speaker 2:And then, in terms of thought machine, I think the thing that really drew me to thought machine was the culture. Um, everyone here seemed like super friendly. Like even with the interview I felt really comfortable, similar to what Cheng Cheng said. Like the interviewers were really good at kind of making you feel comfortable and like, if there was something you don't, you didn't know, that kind of like helped you out a little bit with it. It was kind of like working collaboratively rather than just like quick fire questions, which is kind of what I'd experienced at some of the other interviews I'd done. So I kind of liked the aspect of it far more.
Speaker 2:And also with the thought machine internship program, as Daphne and Melissa both said, like you're kind of given your own project to work on and within that you're kind of integrated into a team at thought machine, as opposed to like being on a team with other interns. And I felt that was really helpful in terms of like being surrounded by people who had been at the company for two, three, five, ten years. Like they were really helpful in kind of answering any questions you had or like just even just telling, like teaching you things about thought machine itself. Like I found that really helpful. And obviously it was quite nice just be surrounded by like a completely different set of people, because obviously when you're in uni you're kind of surrounded by people who are roughly your own age and I think in the workplace that's completely different. So it was really nice to have like real experience of that machine rather than just being surrounded by people your own age still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's nice. Yeah, it sounds like it's a nice culture to be part of day to day. I love the fact as well that you mentioned about you didn't want to start a job and then realize you know you didn't like it. There is that worry always, especially when you graduate and you go into the workplace, and then you have that worry of do I stick this out so it doesn't look so bad on my CV? Maybe I should stick it out for like a year, but perhaps you really hate it and you've wasted a whole year because you didn't really get what you wanted or learn what you wanted.
Speaker 1:So an internship is a brilliant way to test the water, um, as to where you want to go and what you want to do. Um, so, yeah, another benefit of internships. I feel like we're going to cover so many benefits of taking an internship today. Um, I'm going to throw this out to the floor, so if anybody wants to pitch in with an answer, please do or I will nudge. Can you share a memorable moment from your internship experience, a thought machine that really stands out for you? Has anybody got a moment, a memorable moment, that they would like to share?
Speaker 4:Like the day of our presentations, internship project presentations it was the last week and it was on Tuesday and um, so everyone got to present what they did, what they accomplished on their like given project. Um, uh, for the past like nine weeks, and I was nervous because I was going to present like a whole, like project that like I was working on and it wasn't, like you know, a uni or like high school presentation. It was like a real work, like presentation. So it was very scary, but after we were done we got to celebrate the fact that the internship was over and it was a successful internship as well. So I guess, like it was one of the most memorable moments at Top Machine in the internship and like the thing is, everyone was so happy and everyone was content and everyone was so successful. I also listened to like all the other interns and everyone accomplished so many things and everyone learned a lot. So I guess there were no one that was like unhappy or like struggling or anything. And yeah, I just remember that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a brilliant example there. Yeah, that's a brilliant example there. Again, you mentioned the presentation skills, which is actually not something that you would have learned as part of your internship, but then, right at the end, I can see their faces go as I hand them a microphone and I can't, you know, encourage everybody to say something, and if you haven't done that before, it can be quite nerve wracking. But so important to learn and to get comfortable doing that Because, like you said, you will be presenting throughout your career in the workplace. So, yeah, really throw you in the deep end there workplace.
Speaker 4:So, um, yeah, really frame you in the deep end there. And the thing is like everyone at top machine um, actually cared about the internship presentations. So the room was filled with like people working at top machine and they were actually interested in our like projects as interns. So they actually listened to us and they asked so many questions and, yeah, they were really friendly and they were actually caring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's nice. That's good to hear Anybody else memorable moment that they would like to share.
Speaker 3:I have a memorable moment that actually correlates to Melissa's. It's actually the the background of the presentation. One thing I remember very vividly is us preparing for a presentation. So at the time there was a sort of a presentation coach called Rosie Fletcher and she had done drama classes in the past and she helped Thought Machine employees and interns prepare for presentations and we spent, like I think, a couple of hours training on presentation skills and I think that was the most memorable part of the presentation to me because it was like whoa, like they actually support interns for their presentation skills, even though you know, I mean, as important as it was to us, it wasn't that important to the company wide. You know the projects were had their small impact, but you know they were out there training us and supporting us in all ways and I thought that was very, very nice of them to do yeah, really valuable experience instead of, like what I mentioned me handing you a mic off.
Speaker 1:You go, you know and you can tell who's used to that and who's used to just keeping the mic in the right place, and instead of just expecting you to know and to get over all of those things in one go and then deliver your presentation. And yeah, so such valuable um training to to be able to do that and to get over your nerves a little bit as well. I was like that many years ago and I was sent on a training course to speak in public and I remember I just wanted to run, I just wanted to go. I was like this is not for me, but suddenly it dawns on you throughout your career that you're gonna have to do it at some point and presentations are really important to to what you do. So to have somebody to help you along the way um is really invaluable, brilliant for a thought machine. Any other memorable moments from your other ladies?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I think for me like I definitely agree with Melissa and like the presentations were super memorable.
Speaker 2:Um, I think for me, even just like the first day of like coming into thought machine and like the like the first tour you do, and then like meeting your team, I found that really memorable, like I can still remember that quite clearly because it was like the first time I've ever experienced something like that and like it was kind of like it felt like you were meeting people you're going to be with for like the rest of summer. So obviously it's quite a long time. When you first kind of get there, it passes very quickly because you know having so much fun, but like I think that was really memorable to me and also getting like our full-time return offers. So I think when I got that, I was honestly just so happy because I'd enjoyed my time here so much and like I was really excited to come back. Like to me it was like oh okay, cool, I just have to do a year of uni and then I get to come back and work here full-time and that's exactly what I wanted.
Speaker 2:So I was really happy with that as well, and that was really memorable yeah, definitely, like, definitely getting the full-time offers, like that day.
Speaker 4:I remember we were talking to each other, I was like you got it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I got it as well, and that was so fun we were all like finding out that we all got them and we're all gonna be back here next year and like back together.
Speaker 4:The thing is like we all started around the same time this year as well, in September, so it was just like like a reunion and like now we're like working full-time and it's it's still going amazing yeah, cheng Cheng.
Speaker 1:What was your moment like when you got your your offer through?
Speaker 5:yeah, so one of my memorable moment is I got so many memorable moments, but one of them is so it was the week before the presentation, so quite similar. But at that time my team decided to have a cross-team knowledge share session about my project. So at that knowledge share session, not only my team but also people from other teams who's not familiar with my internship project at all will also join, and they want me to host the entire meeting. Oh, wow, yeah, she would like to throw you in a thought machine.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that was really a big task for me by the time. So, like before that, you know, I am just a student studying in the university, so I somehow still treat myself like just an intern. So I'm still learning from all the other colleagues in the company. So, even though my team trying my best to treat me like one of them, involving me all the meetings and all the trainings and all the stuff, but I just still feel like I'm just a student learning all the stuff from other people.
Speaker 1:Yes, they'd have been looked after by one person and that's it. And then you kind of exit the company and that's it.
Speaker 5:You were working with lots of different departments Exactly, and that's why I was super nervous about knowledge share. But after I go through all the process, I prepare the presentation. I got the PowerPoint thing done and I was really standing in the stage and answering the question from all the other colleagues and that moment I just suddenly realized I was actually doing something. I was actually doing the real work and that was really amazing, just super cool. Yeah, I just feel like I'm not just a student anymore, I'm also a full-time employee. Somehow I'm actually contributing to the company.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, that feeling of compassion as well. Yeah, it's. It's clear that you all did want to come back and become a full-time employee, which is coming across from all of you. I wanted wanted to ask you a little bit about challenges or obstacles. How did you navigate any challenges or obstacles you encountered during your internship, particularly as a female engineer in a predominantly male industry, as opposed to when you were at university? Did any of you feel that you came across challenges or obstacles during your internship?
Speaker 2:I think I actually came across like less almost in my internship. Like I feel like I was not treated differently here at all, despite being female. Like I didn't feel like that really impacted my experience at the machine at all. Obviously, uni it kind of varied person to person. Like that was kind of very different, but definitely at thought machine I felt like everyone was super welcoming and like there was no difference in how we were treated between like us and the other male interns yeah, because, also, um, we were, I think, 13 interns and out of the 13 interns, I think it was a six female, seven male.
Speaker 3:Um, and out of the 13 interns, I think it was a six female, seven male, and out of the 13 engineers there were 13 interns sorry, there were 10 that were engineering interns and that was a ratio of five to five. So, as an intern, yeah, I didn't really feel any discrimination, judging or whatsoever. Um, however, at uni it was a bit different. Um, yeah, I agree, at uni it was more so like I felt like I wasn't really taken seriously or I had to work harder than my group. Male dominity, obviously, um, to prove myself, but that machine not, not at all. Actually, everybody was so nice and so inclusive and really it wasn't it really, yeah, it wasn't a problem at all. It almost felt like there was no gender, almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's lovely to hear. As long as ladies feel like they can make it through university and they're not turned off, you know, in like second year for instance, because they don't feel included to then make it into the workplace and land in the right company, it sounds like all is fine now you're in the workplace. But it's interesting to hear that comparison between uni and work, especially at Thought Machine. Uni and work, um, especially at thought machine cheng cheng. Is that, was that your experience as well, or did you not experience that at uni and then when you came into thought machine.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I personally didn't. I don't think that my gender has affected how I did a challenge in thought machine, but I did encounter some challenges during in the university because in my university I think there was like a very limited amount of female who is studying computer science. So when we're doing like group work, they always allocate me to some to work with some other males and they usually have their small group so I can not really blend in. Especially I'm not even from the UK, so I'm like from another country, and it became even harder for me to communicate and do other stuff. Yeah, in here in Thumb Machine I feel like everyone is extremely friendly. You know, sometimes I cannot express what I really want to say and they're always being very patient to listen what I want to say and they provide me very, very valuable suggestions and ideas.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we tend to say on here that that culture when people talk about a really good culture, a company that it's not something that is built overnight. So you mentioned patience and just people being used to being around a diverse workforce and and how to work together and the benefits of bringing people from different cultures and backgrounds and to really embrace that, and that's not something that is built overnight. That's something that really takes a long time to build and that companies work really hard to do that. And all of you have kind of mentioned that there is a positive company culture at Thought Machine and that you all kind of felt incredibly welcomed and not like a student that was there for a few weeks that wasn't going to contribute very much. It actually sounds like you're thrown in the deep end, so that's quite nice to hear. I wanted to ask you I wanted to move on to a little bit about professional development In what ways did Bort machines support your professional development and growth during your internship?
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you feel like they really supported you with? You've all mentioned presentations and public speaking and that kind of thing. Is there anything else that you felt that they helped you with professionally?
Speaker 4:in the start of our internships we didn't know anything Like we knew how to code, but like about Top Machine or what Top Machine used, what kind of tools they used. There we had no idea. But we had weekly academies, top Machine academies so they were like an hour long lectures given by like other top machine employees to us and to other new incomers as well, about like what they use, what tools they use clouds, top machines products, etc. Like everything, top machines products, etc. Like everything. And I think it really helped us understand how these tools are used, not just top machine wise but also like technology wise as well, because they're not just used by top machine but they're like like kubernetes or like many other stuff that was there. Basically, I didn't know before that Like I knew the name but I didn't know how they worked. So I think Top Machine also taught us that, and the presentations as well. The presentation skill lectures was really good as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which all of that does help you when you do move on to your next role, whenever it may be. Kind of just makes you a well-rounded employee, ready for wherever you do go next, and some companies are very good at that. Just realising that we need to train you up, you might move on, but also we'd love you to come back at some point and have lots of new wonderful skills when you do come back. Anybody else is it. Was there anything that you felt really supported your professional development and growth during your time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I definitely back up Melissa's statement with the academies, the fact that we had academies and group of interns, also new joiners, engineer new joiners. It was kind of a smooth transition between uni and work being, you know, in a classroom but actually learning about stuff that you are going to use in real life at Thought Machine. I think that was really nice to have and, yeah, very smooth, very easy to make that sort of you need to work transition. Also, something that I really liked was there was like this buddy setup, so each intern had a buddy in their team to guide them through any questions they might have and that buddy was actually like dedicated to answer every one of your questions every single day, which that was really nice. You know, like everybody's so busy and sometimes you don't know who to turn to to ask questions. You don't want to bother people because they seem so busy. So having a nominated person that you know you can always bother was really really nice to have and they were so patient.
Speaker 1:I mean I mean personally my buddy was very nice and I felt comfortable and great personal development for the buddy as well, because they might not have experienced that before. Yeah, that's good for them to learn and to be a mentor to to you in your internship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's definitely also a good tool to you in your internship. Yeah, no, it's definitely also a good tool to touch down on some a little bit of management maybe and see what that's like. Also, something I think was very nice, uh, from thought machine was our projects were allocated based on our interest on our cv. So I don't know if it applied to everybody, but for myself, my project was correlated on some interest that I had on my CV and I thought that was very nice and personal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's nice that they took the time to do that so you can really shine in the areas that you're really good at, instead of chucking you into something that you might hate. You're not going to get the most out of that. Um, ladies, I'm going to move on because I don't want to run out of time. Um, so please jump in on the next question. Um, if you wish, what advice would you give to other aspiring female engineers who are considering applying for internships or entering the tech industry? Melissa, I can see smiling. I feel like you're going to say just apply and just go for it. It's going to be your advice From my past experiences.
Speaker 4:I felt like I wasn't good enough or like I wasn't smart enough for anything. But then, like seeing observing like males in the same like place that I am, they actually trust themselves, they believe in themselves a lot more, even though they're not better than me. So I guess, like, even if you are not qualified for for it, just like trust yourself and I don't know, just like go for it and try it yes, I hear that often, about men just going for something and ladies perhaps wondering whether or not they have the skills.
Speaker 1:They tick all the boxes, that sort of thing. Chenchen, I can see you smiling as well. You're all smiling like you've all had the same experience. Chenchen, is that something that you felt as well?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I feel similar and I also feel like the technology industry is actually, in my opinion, a great fit for women, because I feel like the gender doesn't really matter in this industry, because it's all about your brain, your skills and your personal abilities, and it's actually very fair to think about that, because if you work hard and prove yourself, you can just keep moving up.
Speaker 5:So right now I know there's a like a shock shortage of women in this industry. Part of it is because of the kind of outdated stereotype like women are not suitable for engineering roles and I personally have heard a lot when I was young and also there might be a reason like this is like currently a male dominated environment. It can be intimidating for the women, but I really want to reassure everyone, every woman who wants to step into this industry, that there's no need to worry, because in technology there's actually no difference between a male's brain and a woman's brain, as long as you got the skills, so you can easily build up your own path yeah, brilliant advice, um, just just to go for it.
Speaker 1:And and as well, when you do find the right company, you shouldn't, um, feel, feel like you can't get on there and stay just because of your gender. And really nice advice. Uh, kieran, definitely any advice that you would give. Is there anything that you wish somebody told you before you took an internship?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think for me it's like I especially when I was applying I was like I don't even do a computer science degree, like I feel like I'm not going to belong here, but I think it was like just taking that leap and actually applying that really helped because like it really boosts your confidence when you like get these offers and you're like, oh okay, like I am good enough and like I think in terms of like what Melissa said about like guides not really knowing more, they're just slightly more confident about knowing it and I think, like you really see that more when you're actually in the workplace that like you don't know less, like you know the same amount. It's just you thought you knew less and I think that's kind of quite nice because you kind of come out of it not only with, like this, much more experience, but also with a bit of a confidence boost as well, like knowing that you know what you know, and like that's a good thing, kind of thing you know what you know and like that's a good thing, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the imposter syndrome is real, but you can't let it take over. I think my advice would be to maybe receive mentorship from a woman. That is where maybe you would want to be, because, I mean, you know, surrounding yourself with people that empower you is great. But when it's men, sometimes it's a bit difficult to identify to that person and actually follow the same route as they did, because, well, you know, sometimes it's easier for them because they're more listened to or there could be some favoritism, you know, like it depends of where you are, which makes brings me to my second point, which is find a company that values diversity. I can't stress that enough yeah yeah yeah, and that does change.
Speaker 1:It changes your whole experience, um, especially when it's your first role and you really take so much from your first role about whether or not you even want to stay in tech, um, and where you want to to move and what you want to do next, it's so, so important to actually said move into a company that really values diversity and doesn't just say they do and then they put out one tweet on international women's day and then do nothing else. All year we see that a lot, but we love the companies that we work with and because they they are really passionate about diversity and it really does show and, especially when we talk to their workforce, you can always see it shining through in the people that we talk to. And, based on that, looking back at your internship experience, how has it shaped your aspirations and goals for your future career in engineering and kia? You mentioned a little bit about confidence. That has really increased confidence and, and, um, how has that shaped your aspirations and goals for where you want to go next?
Speaker 2:I think for me, like I wasn't, as I said, obviously I wasn't always like 100% sure on like doing software engineering, and I think part of that was obviously not being sure whether I was good enough compared to like the other people going into it, just because like the guys always seem so much more confident and like there's not really that many women in software engineering still obviously thought machine is different. In that sense we've got quite a lot of us. But like I think in terms of now having done like the internship and now being in the workplace with like a lot of other women, it's like it is quite helpful in seeing like other women in kind of higher up roles. So it's like you kind of know that you can like strive for that in the future rather than just being like kind of stuck where you are. And it's really nice to see like women in like higher up positions, because then you know kind of what you're aiming for and like you know it's possible, which is really nice yeah, and to have them at different stages as well.
Speaker 1:So sometimes it's really hard to think, okay, well, there's a female CIO, but I don't know how I'm gonna get there, so you kind of want to see the next step and the next step. So, yeah, having them at all levels is so important as well. Anybody else want to share how your internship has shaped their aspirations and goals?
Speaker 4:I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue a career in software engineering. To be fair. Sure, if I wanted to pursue a career in software engineering, to be fair, uh, I was thinking of like going into academics or um, yeah, I was like thinking of maybe doing some computational science and like research projects etc. But after, after the internship, I realized how much I really wanted to work in the industry.
Speaker 1:Um, and I actually accepted that return offer without even like thinking about like a year after, because I was so convinced and I was so, um, I, I just knew that was the right decision yeah, yeah, that's nice that you you'd been, you've been through that and you you didn't even get to the end thinking it actually is engineering still for me, and it was just cemented that you were, you're going to choose that as a career, and, whether or not you accepted the offer at thought machine or you wanted to go elsewhere and try something else, at least you came out feeling like this is definitely a career for me, um, and that that you were sure of it by then. Um, ladies, we're almost out of time and I want to ask you one last question. Uh, what do you think thought machine did that made you feel confident as a woman? Uh, to return and to return thought machine and to work there full time.
Speaker 2:So anything that you felt like they really pushed you and made you feel confident enough to do that so I think for me it was not being treated differently at all, which I really valued, like obviously, as I mentioned before, with uni, it was like you, there were times where, like people treated you differently because you're a woman, like they might not take you as seriously or they just assume you're not smart, and I feel like there was absolutely none of that thought machine, like they just kind of assumed I knew things until I said I didn't and there was absolutely no different treatment which I really loved, and I think that's that was kind of my main thing with coming back. Obviously, the culture was amazing. I really enjoyed kind of what I was doing, but yeah, I think the main thing was like how I was treated.
Speaker 3:That was really really good yeah, I agree with Kia one. I think to me the main thing is thought machine does know how to market their workplace. They, you know, do those self end of week presentations, that celebrations and people are very nice and you're very well treated as an employee. And I mean, when was I think it was like a three weeks ago there was the international women's day, and it was not only that day that was celebrated, was actually the entire week. We had like three or four presentations and some um like an option to buy a book, um, through charity and like one of the presentations, like person doing it.
Speaker 1:Like commented that there was more men than women in the room yeah, wow, yeah, that's telling of a company. Yeah, that there are lots of male allies that are involved as well yeah, yeah, it is quite nice to kind of see that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, and also the fact that we're here doing this podcast with you comes to show that Thought Machine cares about women's voice and yeah, that's very much appreciated.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly yeah. They partner with lots of um external networks that that can help with that and and um us as a community. Obviously we want um everybody to to really um excel as part of our community, and we love talking to our partners, employees, to just to hear it from the horse's mouth as to what it's actually like to work at a company, because it really does come, come through in people's voices and what they say as to whether they're genuine and they really do love it um, which all of you definitely have done today. Um, uh, melita, was there anything that you felt like thought machine did that made you feel confident as a woman?
Speaker 4:to be fair. Um, since I never like realized my gender in this like industrial top machine, what I was doing, it like didn't make me feel like any less, so I actually never thought about this, because this actually never affected me in any case. So I I guess like in in some way it made me feel like I'm not less of anything. So, um, yeah, we're just equals and we just do our work and everyone is like amazing and everyone is capable of doing what they're doing yeah, yeah, which is a much better feeling.
Speaker 1:Um cheng cheng yourself, you mentioned that your team had been very patient and just felt, you know, you just felt very included in everything. Was there anything else in there that just made you feel really confident about saying yes and actually coming back and being full-time?
Speaker 5:well, yeah, I feel similar as well. Melissa feels. So I feel like gender really doesn't matter at all in this company, so everyone is treated equally. When I was doing my internship, everyone all employees are super friendly and I feel respected by them as an employee, but that has nothing to do with my gender. So, like plus, as people mentioned before, so during the internship, the gender ratio was perfectly balanced like six six females and seven males, and having a plenty of female interns around me also make my whole experience even better, because I never felt alone. So, yeah, so I know that this company values my skill and abilities, so that is also why I decided to come back to work here as I graduate.
Speaker 1:It's lovely to hear that you didn't feel alone, that you're not thrown into a program and then just spat out the other end and felt very lonely it sounds like all of you were incredibly supported during your internship and quickly grab hold of your offer, so that is lovely to hear. Ladies, I could talk to you about this for another three hours but we have already come to the end.
Speaker 1:So it has been an absolute pleasure. Melissa Cheng Cheng, Kia and Daphne, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on here. Thank you for having us. Thank you and to everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.
