Dive into the world of tech entrepreneurship as we explore the art of creating a unicorn startup from the ground up. Our expert guest, Garima Kapoor, co-founder & COO of MinIO, shares invaluable advice on the unconventional metrics that can propel startups to success, offering a unique perspective on navigating the ever-evolving landscape of the tech industry.
Discover the secrets to running a flat organization of doers, where innovation thrives, and every team member contributes to the company's success. Unpack practical strategies for building a robust company culture that not only withstands economic downturns but emerges stronger, creating an environment where passion, collaboration, and resilience flourish.
Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or a seasoned business leader, this episode is a masterclass in the alchemy of startup success.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Dive into the world of tech entrepreneurship as we explore the art of creating a unicorn startup from the ground up. Our expert guest, Garima Kapoor, co-founder & COO of MinIO, shares invaluable advice on the unconventional metrics that can propel startups to success, offering a unique perspective on navigating the ever-evolving landscape of the tech industry.
Discover the secrets to running a flat organization of doers, where innovation thrives, and every team member contributes to the company's success. Unpack practical strategies for building a robust company culture that not only withstands economic downturns but emerges stronger, creating an environment where passion, collaboration, and resilience flourish.
Whether you're a budding entrepreneur or a seasoned business leader, this episode is a masterclass in the alchemy of startup success.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone and thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Batesman, the content director at Shikankode, and today we are discussing how to launch and run a successful Unicorn Tech startup. I've got the wonderful Garima Kapoor, co-founder and COO of Min IO, to share her advice on the unconventional metrics that can propel startups to success. Welcome, garima.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure to speak with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I know you're a very busy lady and we would love to set the scene with a little bit about you how you got into tech and how you started your own business. That's okay.
Speaker 2:For sure. So I'm Garima Kapoor. We founded Min IO in 2014. Before Min IO so my background is in finance and economics.
Speaker 2:I was in academics. I have a PhD in ages back in the finance world but when I came to Bay Area once you're in Bay Area, you cannot escape tech. It's just very natural. You're surrounded by startups. You talk about tech. Even though you are a little bit on the periphery, you're always, always talking about the next, latest and greatest technology that's going to be a breakthrough. So I think it's just very natural. With the way I was just in the Bay Area, that's where I really got a chance to learn about the technology be surrounded by really, really smart people and how they approach problems and think through the solutions. I think that was very eye-opening for me. And, like I said, you're in Bay Area. You connect with startups, and so I was on the investing side of the startups Multiple angel investors, working with the investments, working with the investors, founders and being a little bit on the backside of the startup world.
Speaker 2:And in 2014, as AB, my husband's company was he was coming out of retention from Red Hat, his previous successful company, and that's where I started that this is my time I need to do my own startup and because I don't have a engineering background, I don't build tech products. I needed someone to help me do that. So that is where I pulled in AB that I supported you when you were doing your first startup, so now it's your time to help me do that. So that's how Minaya was born and, quite honestly, we didn't know even the problem statement that we were going after. It was just I needed to do a startup, do something of my own, and that really kicked off the process in terms of exploring, okay, what are the relevant problems that we need to go after and everything that we explode in terms of you know what should be our next startup.
Speaker 2:Every single problem led us to that data is a thing that is going to be exponentially relevant, even 10 years, 20 years from now. So even if you keep hacking on it, it is something that you cannot go wrong with. So we kind of circled on that okay, we need to hack on data problem. And then in data world, there are only two ways to approach that problem either from the storage side, that you can store data at scale, or you can approach it from the compute side, which is, you can draw insights on the data that you're storing. So we thought, okay, we'll approach the problem from the storage side like we want world's data to sit on our platform. So that's where Minayo was born.
Speaker 2:Minayo is a high performance S3 compatible object storage and AWS S3 was the inspiration behind it, because when we started, there was nothing like AWS S3 outside of the Amazon cloud. So that's where we started that, okay, aws S3 will only be relevant within the Amazon cloud or within the AWS, and Minayo will be for rest of the world. So we knew the market is huge. We knew the problem is going to become even more relevant as the years go by and we knew this is a problem that is exciting, that can keep us motivated for rest multiple years to hack on it. So that was how Minayo came into, was born Incredible.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that you said as well that you didn't fall into tech. So many ladies come on here and they just kind of fell into the tech industry. They just kind of found tech. It wasn't something that they really planned, but it's lovely when somebody says I'm around a lot of people that are talking about tech and actually it just sounds like a great place to be, and that you actively made that decision to move into tech and then launch your own tech business. It's always nice to hear ladies that have that plan and that they hear what a great career it is to be in the tech business.
Speaker 2:It is. It is for sure, and I think, see, technology is a means to an end. It is not something complete by itself, right? It is always a means to an end. Even if you are thinking about, you know, now, new applications are coming up. Generative AI applications are coming up, right, they are means to an end. They are means to an end to make your life simpler, better, more efficient, whatever that might be right, whatever the technology teams aims to solve.
Speaker 2:So technology is not static. It's like evolution, and you need to. If you want your life to be simple and if you want your customer's life to be simple, you need to get on to that journey. I think it is only there to help you make good decisions and help you propel forward to the next phase. So I think technology is more a means to an end, like how you learn economics, how you learn finance. These are things that help you make better decisions, whether about your investments or managing your own money or company's money, whatever that might be. So technology is also a means to an end, not just something that is, you know, complete in itself. That's how I view it.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, and your business so far has been very successful, and we're going to talk to a little bit about creating a unicorn startup, which is an incredibly ambitious goal, but, in your experience, what distinguishes a unicorn from other startups and how can entrepreneurs foster an environment conducive to unicorn level success?
Speaker 2:So I don't feel like Unicorn was the goal when we started and I know not a lot of startups begin with that or will be a Unicorn startup. Unicorn is something that happens on the way when you're building a successful company. It is like a badge that you get, and it is a meaningful badge as well. I'm not going to undermine the valuation, because a billion dollar valuation is pretty significant for any startup. So I think it is like I said, it's not the goal in itself. It's more like a milestone in a startup world that when you start a company, you're at this size and when you grow, you become this and then that is and next phase is whatever the company might think of in terms of IP or M&A and whatnot. So it's more of a milestone In terms of I don't think in terms of Unicorn status or in terms of any other startups. What is important is that you're building a foundationally strong company. You're building a company on strong, strong fundamentals as well as the growth rate is very attractive. So I think I always tell my team members, as well as the customers, because they keep asking what is the path forward for Minayo and my always my answer is that the only answer that is important is that we're going to build a successful company.
Speaker 2:If you're building a successful company, any outcome is a good outcome, whether it is M&A or whether it is IPO, whether it is another round of funding that can lead to a greater and a higher valuation. All those things are possible. But if you are struggling and you are not focused on doing the right things for the company and you're just like going to get carried away by certain things, like certain startups, when they're born, they're only born with the one agenda of getting acquired, maybe in three years time frame, maybe in four years time frame. So the decisions that happen are very different decisions that happen if you're building a company for a long term. It's a very different play.
Speaker 2:Not that it is wrong or right. It is a different play. It's a different mindset. But if you're building company for a long term, long run, you always need to think about fundamentals. You always need to think about let's do what is right, even if in short term, it might lead to it might not lead to immediate outcomes, but you are here for the long play and I think that is a differentiating factor in terms of building a successful company versus a building a company for a short run, maybe a quick M&A or whatnot.
Speaker 1:So that's the difference. That's brilliant advice. I think a lot of partners that we talk to at she Can Code not so much our partners but we have noticed from some companies that not thinking ahead to the future for instance, even building a strong foundation with your team culture and the type of team that you bring together that sometimes it's, for instance, diversity is an afterthought, and then they think actually we should have done that from the start because that would have benefited us in the long run.
Speaker 2:And you're absolutely right Starting with a strong foundation in some of the key things, such as your staff, then it's very different 110%, and I think people need to talk more about the culture that they set in the initial phases of the company, the initial key hires that they make, because they are the people who will lay the foundation of the company. Also, they are going to lay the foundation how the company is going to grow. Because, see, as founders, you cannot be in all meetings, you cannot be everywhere all the decisions that are happening. What you can do is that bring in the right people and empower in the correct way and make sure they understand that. If maybe, for example, if Garima is in a room, what kind of decisions would she take and take those decisions accordingly.
Speaker 2:So I think that mindset happens over a period of time and, as founders, you really need to invest a lot in terms of making sure that your team really understands your vision, how you approach the problem. So it is time consuming. I will not undermine that. It just happens like that. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of effort and it takes it needs to be part of something that you do. It cannot be subconscious thing. You need to make an effort to make it happen. But then I think the rewards are there in long term, because the key hires that you will make will bring in the right set of people as you're going to build the team, and that's how the organization scales and that's how you can maintain the culture of the company, whether it is, you know, 10 member team, 100 member team, 1,000 member team. That's the only scalable factor by having really great people as part of your team.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I agree, and when I heard that you were coming on here, I thought absolutely amazing that I had there you have this phrase that that I had heard about a flat Organization of do this, and I thought I was so excited to talk to you about that phrase because it's something that I Completely agreeing and companies that I have worked at where that has happened, have just been the best companies and the best thing Happens at those companies. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about how do you effectively manage and lead a flat Organization of doers and you know, just to ensure that everyone's contributions are recognized and valued.
Speaker 2:Yeah 110%, I think. So a flat organization was again a very conscious decision because what happens is that when you're a 10 member team, naturally that's how you manage. It's a flat organization. But once you start doing or scaling the company, also the expectation from Others is that you're going to bring in layers and layers of managers, like maybe senior director, vps, then SVPs and EVPs. You know it's like the whole Shebang of the management. Tears appear as you scale the organization and grow from 10 to 50, 200 and whatnot.
Speaker 2:For us it was very important that, first of all, we don't we the kind of people even we hire. The only thing I tell them is that we are looking to hire leaders. Even if you're an intern, leadership is very inherent quality and then you know you, given the right environment, it can, it can really blossom into something else. So it is my responsibility as a founder to make sure anyone joining the company is Given the ample opportunity to shine and grow into leadership. We don't want to hire managers. That was just something that we just did not want to go because I mean, given past experience, we know how quickly, once you put an org chart together, how quickly Things start changing. That's the number one thing that leads to Politics and different dynamics in the organization. We just did not want that. I mean we want to keep things super efficient and Because we are, when we are here, fighting a bigger battle right, I mean, we are going up in Iowa is going after AWS S3. That is no small competition in any way. So for us, it is even more important that we are very coherent, very efficient as a team, and that's how we can make an impact in the industry. So the best way and the easiest thing to do was to build a flat organization structure and give everyone a chance To grow into leadership roles.
Speaker 2:It's not like people don't have responsibilities. They are not held accountable. That's not that. That is not the goal. The goal is always to make sure that people are delivering to the best of their capability and, as founders, we are giving them enough environment and the best environment to grow. So that's the only thing I tell them, and we have had phenomenal people.
Speaker 2:People who just joined as an engineer grew up to take a position of Lead an engineering team, right. So, and then, once you deliver, everyone within the team also Recognizes that okay, this is the person who has done the most. It just happens very naturally. So there is no conflict in terms of you know You're bringing additional person to manage the team or there is no conflict why this person was given this opportunity and whatnot. So it becomes a very natural process over a period of time.
Speaker 2:But, yes, it does require certain level of investment again from the founding team to make sure that that culture is retained. You get the right kind of people. Spend a lot of time in terms of interviewing. I think that's where, for the longest time, we kept the team super you know, super small, because we just got in super highly efficient, highly productive people. So when we were going for a funding in 2022, that's where we've got the unicorn valuation we were only a 40 member team, and for a 40 member team to have made so much impact in the storage industry it's unheard of, because traditionally the model is very different in terms of hiring a lot of people and Even then they're not able to accomplish the impact that we have accomplished. So I think that has only been possible by hiring the right kind of people, by giving them the right environment to to grow into leadership roles and and surely as well that helps you to retain, retain those 40 people.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah. You're growing business. You don't want that turnover. If people are happy, they're happy, their environment easy for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:I think people want to do their best.
Speaker 2:I truly believe that and If, given the right environment, and if they feel motivated and connected with the bigger vision, they are not going to leave you and I just tell that as well right, even if we drop this product right now, we tell, okay, back up, we are going to do something different, I am 100% confident that this team is just not even going to tell anything.
Speaker 2:Of course, we'll have a Discussion why we are doing that, but after that, I'm 100% confident that this team is just going to do that, to do whatever we think is the right thing for the company. And you know so I think we have. We have that kind of trust in our team and I think the team has that kind of trust in us that we are always, always going to do Right thing by them. I think that is so important that they are not going to be overstepped. They're going to be heard, they're going to be, their work is going to be seen and felt and their impact is going to be recognized throughout the organization. So I think that is the most important thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that leads us on nicely to when you come up against challenging times as well, and how teams react. So how can founders and leaders build and sustain a strong company culture during uncertain times?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think uncertain times they will always see. If you're building company for long term, there will always be good times. There's always going to be challenging times as simple as that. I think the true testament is how transparently you share those things with the team members and come up with a solution. Give them the complete overview. This is the status and this is where we are, but this is what we think can happen, For example, not in our case. We've been quite lucky in terms of whether it is funding, whether it is having the right kind of product fit, so we've been great in those aspects.
Speaker 2:But I've seen other startups go through challenges, maybe say a fundraising challenge and whatnot. You need to be very transparent with the team that this is what we are going through right now. But this is, for example, there's a fundraising challenge that a team company is facing. You tell them that this is what we are going to raise, this is what our expectation is and these are the investors we are pitching and for us to raise. This needs to happen within the company.
Speaker 2:I think when you lay it in a very simple and clean terms and be very transparent, people understand. I mean, your team will understand. They are all good people? I don't think so why they will not understand or align with what you're trying to accomplish. I think the only thing that when that does not happen is because you've not been as a founder, you've not been honest, you have lost trust from your team in terms of making the right decisions. I think that is where the you know when there are uncertain times, you will see the team members not able to cope up with them. But I think the responsibility, ultimate responsibility, always falls on the leaders, always falls on the founders, in terms of how effectively you are communicating the vision of the company, how effectively you are communicating and transparent you are communicating with the company, the status where you are and where you want to go. I think, as long as those things are taken care, challenging time should be just like any other time, but just more hard work, that's all.
Speaker 1:Yes, I've been at those companies as well where I felt that when we started as a startup, that that company was really invested in me as a person. When challenging times did come around, I didn't think, oh, I'll just jump ship and go somewhere else. I thought I want to stay with this company and make sure that we ride out the store.
Speaker 1:It's just you're right being honest and upfront about what is happening. People just appreciate that and think you know I can trust my leadership team here. We will come out the other side and we did. But you're right, is that being upfront about everything? That also leads us on to sustainability, and a company is growing very fast and making sure that that is ingrained into their DNA from the start. So they start off can often prioritize rapid growth, but not sustainability so much. And how do you strike a balance then between scaling quickly and ensuring the company's sustainability?
Speaker 2:So I think for a startup, the biggest thing is growth. I would not undermine that and I think, as long as you're doing the right things for the company and not making poor decisions in name of growth because that happens as well I think if you're doing that, sustainability will be a natural outcome of it. But I think for a startup, they should be focused on growth of the company. That's the number one thing. That's where investors have laid their trust on, that's where the team even that you built has laid their trust on you. So I think growth is the number most important thing that any founder or any company should be focused on while making the decisions. That won't hurt you in the long run.
Speaker 2:I think if you take that as a foundational piece, sustainability will just happen normally. And when you're growing very fast, when you're hiring a lot of people, you just need to make sure that the lines of communication are still clear. Like I said, it requires effort. It requires your motivation to make it happen, because as founders, you are always getting pulled into so many different directions. You need to make a clear effort in that direction that, as we are growing, scaling super fast, hiring a lot of people, you want to make sure that every person that you bring on board they correctly get on boarded, to your team, to the organization, and not just through process perspective, more through a company culture perspective, more through you know they understand what you're trying to accomplish as a long run. So those things do take an effort, but I think the rewards are just. Yeah, rewards pay for itself for all the efforts that you put in.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think that's a lot of it. You mentioned effort, as if some companies think things just happen by magic. It's like sustainability or creating a strong, diverse culture. It takes a lot of effort to do that.
Speaker 2:It does. You need to be very conscious about it and I, you know, as first time founder this is my first company you do fall into the trap, you know. The thing is that when you hire people, you're like, okay, things are going to happen by itself. Never happens like that. You need to be very, very hands on as a founder, even if you're brought in the team, it takes a lot of time. You need to continuously even the people that you've had to continuously talk and make sure they're aligned with, with what you are doing for the company and all those things. So it takes a lot of conscious effort. It's just, yeah, I ran into the same thing. I was like, okay, they've hired people, now things are going to magically happen. Never does.
Speaker 1:It takes a lot of effort, and I'm sure a lot of our ladies are thinking the same thing as well. So for the aspiring entrepreneurs that are listening, what advice do you have for those looking to embark on the journey of building a unicorn tech startup for the first time, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:don't think so much in terms of unicorn startup. Think about picking the right problem statement. I think that's very important. The problem that is not tied to a short term trend, the problem that you think is going to solve real problems out there in the world. I think that is the key for it, not so much in terms of I need to build a unicorn startup. Think about building simple solutions to complex problems. That is something that never fails and I think that is the key for anyone who's aspiring to do your own startup.
Speaker 2:First of all, just do it. There is no point in just thinking through so many things, because it will end up analysis, paralysis. You don't want to get into that once. If you want to do it, do it. The next thing is the problem that you want to go after. The problem is super important. It needs to be relevant. Don't get carried away by short term trends like generative AI, for example. Everyone is talking about it.
Speaker 2:I believe this is something that is going to last for another 10 years, but the growth is going to be very patchy. It's going to be very up and down, so you really need to pick in terms of what you want to solve for next 10 years. I think if you have that kind of horizon and if you build a simple and elegant solution for that problem statement, you cannot go wrong. All good things will happen. And then third, of course, is, like we discussed earlier, right, you need to build the right team. Even if you have the right solution, the right problem, if you don't have the right team to work on it or to build a company together, it will not happen. So I think, right team, right problem, simple solution never fails.
Speaker 1:Yes, and as well you mentioned having the right problem, or just always having something to revert back to, as if to say this is why we started, this was our mission. Because it must be quite easy to lose that along the way, I think. Why did we even start this?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the thing is that if you pick up like, for us, data was very important and we knew that is a problem that is going to be relevant for 10, 20, 30 years, now even more applications coming and leveraging data, so it's a very broad statement. If you see data like everyone is dealing with data, it's a very broad statement. Now you need to go one step even deeper into that. Okay, if data is something that you want to work on now, next step of it is that where do you want to get to the data problem? Whether you want to build an application to get insight out of the data, whether you want to solve the data from just making sure the data is available at a high performance for your applications to consume. And then you go into one step even deeper after that.
Speaker 2:Okay, if storage is something that we want to think about, then what is the right storage technology that we need to build to address the challenges of the modern data scale? I think then you just kind of filter, filter, filter, and the thing is that you don't have to be super. Once you have the vision clear in your mind, then you can do a little bit of pivots here. They're all okay, because as long as you're aligned in terms of what you're trying to solve, the way to get there is not always straight line. It's always up and down here, there, but as long as you know the destination, you will get there. The path to the destination will always have some changes over the way, so yeah, that's how I look at it, as long as you know the destination Exactly.
Speaker 2:You need to know where you're going.
Speaker 1:Are there any key lessons or insights that you wish you'd known before you were starting a career in tech, and also before you started your own business, if you wish? There was something that somebody had told you.
Speaker 2:I think it's a journey and you need to. Of course, you need to get someone who has done this before, someone who has a little bit more deeper insights into running a business, but I do feel that you need to do your own mistakes, because every startup journey at some level are very similar, but at some level are also very different from each other. So things that would have been important to some other startup might not be directly applicable to us. So you need to keep talking to your peers in the industry and understand what they're doing. You need to talk to your investors what they're seeing within their portfolio of startups and see if you can get to those problems before. But every startup needs to go through its own journey, like every founder has to go through their own journey and make their own mistakes and learn through that.
Speaker 2:Vishne was an easy way that someone can just tell that, okay, do this, this, this, and that's it, you're going to be fine. It just doesn't happen like that. For me it was. I think managing team I think that is where I did do in terms of hiring was good, but then I did not take quick enough decisions to let go of them and they were not working. I think I feel that is something that I could have done a better job at it. Now I know how to do it, but you live and learn. That's how I always view it.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's brilliant. There is one that you said you have to learn your own mistakes, and that's okay as well. In this day and age as well, we see so many success stories on social media and it's almost as if people think everybody's starting a company and everything's wonderful and it just goes straight forward first time and that you post pictures of your team on Instagram. And a lot of the time that is not the case and you're right to share those mistakes and say actually, it's okay to make mistakes and you have to learn along the way.
Speaker 2:It's so much more refreshing.
Speaker 2:You need to make those mistakes. If you're not making mistakes, then that means you're not taking enough chances. As simple as that. If you're going to take chance, there are going to be mistakes 100% and you need to own up to it and move on. It's okay. I think, being a woman and also first time founder for me, I used to take a lot of things like really, really hard on myself in the early days of the startup and then I realized it's okay, others are going through the same thing, you're not alone and we need to just keep looking at our where we want to be and keep moving forward. We cannot just sit and think through what went wrong and what could have been done better. It's okay, move on. I think that was something that I learned the hard way. People come with their own different personalities. That's just I had to learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is next for Min IO?
Speaker 2:So Min IO it's very, very exciting times. Like I said, data is. We did not imagine that the scale of the applications, that they are going to come onto Min IO platform when we started back in 2015 and it's been a great, great ride. We are very excited, first of all, the scale at which the data is getting generated. Secondly, we are very, very excited about what's ahead in the AI space.
Speaker 2:Like I said, generative AI is going to be super relevant and it's going to evolve very, very fast over 18 to 24, next 18 to 24 months. So from our side, we are headstone focused from the core business perspective on Min IO object storage, where we want the world's data to sit on our platform and then whatever we build on top of it as an AI application. It's only more goodness to the people, to our customers, and that's where we are focused on, as the next phase of the company is to be the AI 10 years from now. How do we want to be recognized as we want to be recognized as a AI company storage? Everything just becomes a foundational layer of whatever we do. So that is where we are very excited and that's where I think the company is heads down innovating Incredible.
Speaker 1:No, we would love to hear more about your story along the way, but we are already out of time. I could talk to you for all afternoon on this. Thank you so much, Karima, for taking the time out of your busy day to come and have a chat. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, Kelly, for helping me. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:And to everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.