Join us in this inspiring episode as we shine a spotlight on The CRUMBS Project and its transformative impact on the local community. Explore the vital role this initiative plays in equipping individuals with essential skills and tools to thrive in today's digital age. Uncover the stark realities of the digital skills gap in the UK and the tangible consequences of digital exclusion in our daily lives.
Hear from Janet Miller, Digital Skills Trainer at The CRUMBS Project, who will share how the initiative is not only addressing the immediate needs of the community but also fostering a sustainable and inclusive digital future for all. She will also talk about the importance of wider initiatives that the organisation takes part in such as Get Online Week run by Virgin Media O2 and The Good Things Foundation, offering digital inclusion sessions and internet access to those who need it.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Join us in this inspiring episode as we shine a spotlight on The CRUMBS Project and its transformative impact on the local community. Explore the vital role this initiative plays in equipping individuals with essential skills and tools to thrive in today's digital age. Uncover the stark realities of the digital skills gap in the UK and the tangible consequences of digital exclusion in our daily lives.
Hear from Janet Miller, Digital Skills Trainer at The CRUMBS Project, who will share how the initiative is not only addressing the immediate needs of the community but also fostering a sustainable and inclusive digital future for all. She will also talk about the importance of wider initiatives that the organisation takes part in such as Get Online Week run by Virgin Media O2 and The Good Things Foundation, offering digital inclusion sessions and internet access to those who need it.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone and thank you for tuning in again. I am Kayley Bateman, the content director at she Can Code. Today we are discussing empowering communities ridging the digital vibe with the Croms project. Today, we're going to uncover the stark realities of the digital skills gap in the UK and the tangible consequences of digital exclusion in our daily lives. We're also going to touch upon Get Online Week, which is run by Virgin Media, o2 and the Good Things Foundation. Thankfully, I've got with me the amazing Janet Miller to help me with that today. Janet Miller is the digital skills trainer at the Croms project and she's going to share how the Croms project is not only addressing the immediate needs of the community but also fostering a sustainable and inclusive digital future for all.
Speaker 1:Welcome, janet. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to join us. Sorry, hello, kayley. We have got a lot to get through today, so we're going to kick off with a bit of context about you, if that's OK. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into your present role?
Speaker 2:Right, I came by a very wibbly wobbly route to be a digital skills trainer.
Speaker 1:We love that she can go. Do we hear that a lot?
Speaker 2:I retrained in my mid-50s. Our background with my husband and myself was hospitality and catering and my husband got to retirement age he probably retired and I thought what am I going to do? So I started off by volunteering to listen to children read in a local school and I thought that I might be quite suitable to become a classroom assistant. So I applied to a local provider, Skills and Learning, and they didn't have any spaces on that course. But they did offer me, after a conversation with me, to if I wanted to train to become a tutor in the lifelong learning sector, and I hadn't actually considered that at all. I was purely looking for something part-time and low-key to do. But I did go along and I took all my courage in my hands because I hadn't done any learning for a lot of years. It was my, I was in my mid-50s and I came straight from school at 16 into the workplace. So I went along and I found as the first course progressed I found that a lot of things that they were covering I was actually doing in hospitality and catering and I didn't realise I was doing them. So I found the transition sort of familiar to me and then at the end of my training. I went as far as training and teaching adults not going into schools. That was a separate qualification. But I didn't want to do that. I wanted to help adults that had missed out on education for one reason or another. So they very, very kindly offered me a job as a cookery teacher, and I think that they had a need for cookery teachers at the time. So anyway, I went to work for them and I enjoyed the courses immensely. But I also sort of segwayed, by virtue of people being absent for courses and things like that, into preparing people to get ready to teach. So, confidence building, managing stress and anxiety, getting ready for work. People have been at the workplace for a long time and I really, really enjoyed it and I found sorry, I do get a bit emotional about it, except, excuse me, I found that that had my heart, if you like.
Speaker 2:So I came to Crumbs to teach English and maths, first of all everyday English and maths, and then I was asked if I would do a computer course. So I said, yes, I will, but I am not an expert in digital skills. So I became a teaching assistant for a short while with skills and learning, so that I could learn the basics of it and I found that actually, again, a lot of it I was learning quite easily. It wasn't the skill that I had already in that particular area. So I came to Crumbs and taught digital skills and they decided to bring it in house. So again, they very kindly offered me the job of digital skills tutor and I said yes straight away because Crumbs is a very special place and sorry, I am emotional about this I didn't expect to be quite so emotional. So I came here in 2002 and helped put together the program that we now run. So I didn't expect to be a digital skills tutor.
Speaker 1:Your story is so inspiring and it's gonna be so inspiring for our listeners as well, because so many of our ladies ask how can I retrain, how can I do something or pivot later in life? Is it too late? Can I do it? Where do I find the skills? And you just kind of embody everything that our ladies are always asking, because it takes a lot to be able to say you know what, I'm going to try something new or I'm going to learn something new and also where to go. A lot of our ladies worry that they're going to go down the wrong path. They spend a lot of money sometimes and time on things that actually they come out the other side of it and I think actually that was a mistake or I didn't like it, or that you know now I can't find a job in that area. It can be quite daunting. So it's brilliant to hear your story and that you're so passionate about it, because it's everything that our ladies ask us all the time.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, yeah, I'd say, just be brave. Be brave If it's something that you are passionate about or you'd like to learn more about, do research and then go for it. This is the first job, say, in 25 years that I'd had. That was me, by myself, so that was also daunting. I'd always been with my husband, and so you have people to bounce ideas off, and then suddenly the responsibility when you start teaching sort of hits you. But then you just settle into it because you know that you've been trained and you know you have the information. So I'd say, just do it.
Speaker 1:I'm a scaredy cat and I did it, so yeah, and it sounds like it's going brilliantly well so far, and you are. It sounds very passionate about the Crumbs Project as well and what you do, so can you tell us a little bit about? Can you give us an overview of the Crumbs Project and its mission to bridge the digital divide in the local community?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. The Crumbs project is a disability training charity, so it's not like a drop in centre or you come here to purely as a social thing. It is a serious training academy and it's aimed. Everybody who comes here has a learning challenge or disability. So it might be that they have a stabilised drug addiction. It might be they've had, maybe acquired brain injuries, they might have been born with a disability, they might have mental health issues.
Speaker 2:So they come along to the training programme and we deliver a hospitality based programme which is endorsed by the Institute of Hospitality in food production services, housekeeping, administration and now digital skills, which was a natural progression to go into the digital skills side bit as well. We're very small, so we have up to 30 trainees at a time, that's all. They can be ranged in age from 18 up to 70. What we really want to do at Crumbs, and everybody is very passionate about, is defying perceptions and expectations, so creating opportunities for people so that they can take the skills that they learn inside Crumbs and practically take them out into a work based environment. So that might be volunteering. It might not be a paid work, but it's classed as work and our trainees particularly are proud of going into volunteering positions or it could be going on to a paid employment. So that's what we do and that's what we're all focused on, and the trainees are extremely focused on what they do, to take a pride in coming to us as well, how did the initiative start?
Speaker 1:I mean the benefits, obviously, and the reason for your starting it is so clear with this and helping people and helping the community. How did the project actually kick off? Did it kind of align with your own story as well and wanting to teach adults? And how did it start off in the beginning?
Speaker 2:The Crumbs project itself, you mean. So a lovely lady called Anne Gardner was an MBE for her work. She founded Crumbs in 1997 and she actually had a disabled family member and she realised that there were very few provisions that could encourage personal and professional development. So she started the Crumbs Foundation and it's grown from there.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask you a little bit about the Digital Skills Gap in the UK and could you shed some light on the current state of the Digital Skills Gap and the challenges it poses to individuals and communities?
Speaker 2:Yes. So the Skills Gap seems to be quite wide and varied. So, according to the Virgin Medio 2 research, 43% of people feel that they can't keep up with technology, and that increases to 58% over the age of 65. And I think that's quite a good point, because sometimes you can consider well, I'll learn that and once I've learnt it, I don't have to worry about it anymore. But things move continually and they evolve. We've just got, for example, touchscreen, laptop, stroke tablets and everyone's very excited about them. It's the way that things are going to go.
Speaker 2:So it's keeping up with technology and can be as daunting as actually learning in the first place. So I find this quite astonishing that more than 5 million people in Britain don't have any Digital Skills at all but don't class themselves as having Digital Skills. I think one of the interesting things about Digital Skills that people often say, no, I can't do anything. But once you actually start the learning process with people, the people do have skills. We just don't always recognise them. But even so, more than 5 million people saying that they don't have skills at all and a fifth people feel left behind. So the more you feel left behind, the less inclined you are to try and catch up and therefore the gap gets wider and wider.
Speaker 2:And the other statistic that I took is from the Good Things Foundation research and over 30% of people with an impairment of some kind don't have basic Digital Skills. So there is a huge divide and I think it's working out how you bridge that. And a very interesting stat that I remember from Dorset Council at the beginning of Covid was they found that again, 30% of people had no reliable digital connection or access to equipment, and obviously it's become so relevant during Covid and since Covid that people have to be able to do so much more online. If they don't feel confident doing it, they just won't engage in doing it at all and they miss out on all of the best deals. They miss out on lots of education opportunities as well. So it's extremely important that people have access to a means of either getting online, staying online and learning new skills that can help them into employment, but with their life as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's quite a high number, isn't it actually you just saying that from Dorset Council.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:You would think in this day and age that would be a lot lower, but it's incredibly high. And you're right. It became so important during Covid, where suddenly we couldn't go out and physically see people and people needed to work from home and still to stay in touch with each other instead of being on your own Continuous learning that you mentioned there that you've learned something and you have to keep relearning and relearning. It's so interesting in the technology sector on that point, because it's one thing learning digital skills and getting up to speed and then realising actually you were using a lot of those skills every day anyway. It's just getting into the swing of using them.
Speaker 1:I know a lot of employers say the same thing. It's training somebody to come into something in the tech sector and then it moves on, and then it moves on and it's almost like you're. You know, for instance, if you're training people at school, by the time they get into work, all of those skills are absolutely already obsolete. Yes, so it's difficult to keep with that retraining, isn't it? I think sometimes I, like you said, once you show somebody something and they realise actually I was doing that or I didn't. I think that wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. They'll just keep moving and and continuous, continuously learning. It's you getting them started, I suppose is the starting point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It's a big leap. I think it's one of the biggest steps for somebody to come to to digital learning if they really think they don't have that skill set. But if people learn and then they have to retrain, it's the learning that is the most important part. If you learn how to learn and realise you can.
Speaker 2:If you can take on information in scenario A, you can take on information in scenario B and the one, if I can just give a case study as a trainee who wanted to see what was going on in the digital suite, but he didn't want to come into the room. So we spoke the first time. I spoke to him. We spoke for about 20 minutes and he was by the doorway and we were we're talking, I saying this is the computer, would you like just to come sit next to me? No, thank you, no, thank you, and that was that was his first introduction to me. So but he gradually came in and got involved and then he was just involved in a library visit that we did. That I think we can talk about later and and he came along to that. So he's come an awful long way, but it's that first step that is so huge.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, definitely. If you're nervous about turning up for something, how you're going to be welcomed, I suppose, or accepted or, you know, having to put yourself forward and say you know, I haven't learnt for some time and can you help me with something? Is is quite daunting. You mentioned there a case study. Can can you share some more compelling stories of residents that you've worked with who have directly benefited from the Crombs project? And you mentioned the young guy there and you mentioned a library visit.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. So as part of our power-up project this year, we decided that we would make connections in the community so that when trainees were outside of Crums they would feel comfortable accessing computers, because in Crums it's a very nurturing environment, quite rightly. But if you're not inside Crums and you need to access information, where can you go to do that? So we took bus trips and the trainees were involved in doing some of the research digital skills research so they were looking up where the local library was, bus routes and that sort of thing. And then we arranged the day we went down. We did three visits in the end with them, with different trainees, and they had to go in and it was a different environment. So they had to sign in on the library computer system first before they went in to their one file, which is their training program, digital training program.
Speaker 2:So they had to overcome quite a few obstacles to do that. They had to practice patience. They were very excited, which was really lovely, but people had to wait. They had to say no, I can't do this, and do it in a certain fashion. They had to find information out and it was all completely new. So there were lots of different distractions for them. So that was actually a huge success and we're going to continue it with visiting other libraries as well, and then my hope is that we can set people tasks and projects and they can go into their local libraries and find out information and bring it back. Maybe QR-ding posters we've introduced, just very, very softly, that sort of technology. Again, it's through the GetOnline week that happens, so they had to scan a QR code and download it to their telephone to be able to give feedback. So these are all skills. So sometimes it's not about saying to people I am going to teach you this. It's about incorporating it in a way that people are learning and not necessarily learning, because it's relevant to them.
Speaker 2:If it's relevant to you, you learn it. I had to learn lots of skills to be able to become a digital skills tutor because it wasn't my natural habitat. My husband did all things computer. I know that's a very old fashioned thing to say now, but I was front of house and he was back of house so that was his domain, and so therefore, when COVID came especially, I was asked would I teach online? Absolutely I would teach online. I better go off and teach myself how to get onto a Zoom call screen, sharing breakout rooms, all things I knew nothing about at all. It just wasn't relevant in my life so I didn't know it. But because it was relevant to me, I was able to get on top of it and learn it after a fashion, most of the time.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are right, when you actually have to do something and it turns up in your day to day, I never forget my mum.
Speaker 1:She said to me once that she used a tablet at the dentist and she'd never used one and she didn't have one at home. And she said to me I had to do a digital signature today at the dentist and I didn't realise how easy it was to use a tablet because she'd never used one, and so we ended up buying one in the end so she could look up the news and do what she wanted. But she actually wouldn't have been pushed to do it because she hadn't used it yet in day to day life and digital signatures at the time wasn't a thing. But it was so interesting to me when she told me and I thought, actually, because you got almost pushed into it by the dentist, so put up a world of. Now you can read the news if you want on your tablet at home because we bought you one. So, yeah, you are right. When you are doing it in day to day life, that's when you learn and realise actually it's a lot easier than you thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I think it's that first step and once you take it, my mother was a bit similar and she's in her 80s I don't think she might be showing this. She wasn't online with lots of things and then she had a circumcised where she just had to be. She had to take charge of it all, and now she's an absolute whiz. She does absolutely everything online. But if you'd have asked her a few years ago, do you think you'd be doing that same with me? Do you think you're teaching digital skills? No, I didn't think I would be a teacher. That's like a revelation to me. So, yes, you're right, if you have to, then you find a way to do things.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you mentioned Get Online Week, which is run by Fergie Meteorotu. Could you elaborate on the significance of Get Online Week sessions and how they contribute to a broader goal of digital inclusion?
Speaker 2:The impact for us for Get Online Week has actually been quite huge. It's absolutely huge, and we've done two years. We've been part of the project now since I've been involved in Grums and we always every year we find that we have an automatic plan for the next year that comes out of the previous one. So we started in 2012. We, our trainees, are not residents. They all live in their own homes and their own situations. But attached to crumbs, if you like, there's the Hibbid Court, which does have up to 40 residents in it. So we did our first get on Nine Week by engaging with the residents of Hibbid Court and our trainees were involved in all sorts of different ways. So being digital doesn't always mean sitting on the computer and doing a particular thing, like filling out forms and that kind of thing. Some of our trainees were involved in a much lesser extent because it was our first year and we didn't want to frighten or put pressure on and it has to fit in with the programme at CUMS as well. So some people were involved with making posters. So four of the trainees got to sign their own posters as they put up for the residents. Some people were involved in making cakes, because cakes are a big thing at crumbs that we do. Some people were involved in being in the session to take part and some of the trainees were actually there to support as well, and it's the first time that they've been in a supporting role, so the esteem and the pride that they got from that was quite significant as well. What it means is that it encourages peer learning. So if you've got trainees in the crumbs environment, we use tablets now it's embedded into everything we do. So if a trainee is in the kitchen they'll be going on to their files, finding recipes and that is all online. They're starting to teach each other. So if somebody's got stronger skills and somebody hasn't, where do I find that? Oh, let me just show you. Look, it's just here. So it's fostered that kind of environment quite significantly in crumbs and we say trainees. The first year people were slightly reluctant to be involved Once they saw what it was the next year, say with library visits and going out into the wider community, they've just been so enthusiastic about it. And we do have plans for our projects for next year as well, which is building on communications that we've got in the local area, either going out to people or getting people to come into our centre so they can take advantage of the modules. We've got nine, so there's something there for everybody, but the impact it just is huge. I found it really exciting because you can do something in a different way. You can say this is the challenge here, how do I resolve that? And you have an open door. You can resolve it as you need to resolve it, and it leads to exciting decisions and exciting results that you wouldn't necessarily expect to have.
Speaker 2:We had a young trainee who was nonverbal when she joined crumbs. She was very quiet. She didn't smile very much over her time of being at crumbs and also being included. She's very digitally minded, so this has come out in the time that she's been with us. She was part of the going out to the local library project. She was part of the first Get Online. She designed a poster.
Speaker 2:I've been with her, been very lucky to have a day out where we received an award and I took her with me and she was talking to people that she didn't know. I think wherever your confidence comes from, it's knowing that you're going to be okay and you're going to feel safe. She's come on absolute leaps and bounds and so she's very digitally minded, so she will get her own tablet out. She'll come in here and I said you're going to sign on now and I give her the information to sign on and she does it. She's very, very confident and I think being able to do something practical gives you your confidence and it's helped to settle in. She is a Chutterbox now, which is brilliant, and she's very funny.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. I like the fact that you said not just on the confidence part, but the peer to peer, because that sounds like as well. Confidence grows there. So people feel confident enough to say, oh, I know where that is, or I'll show you something, which must have such a ripple effect outside of the crumbs project as well. Surely, when they're at home or they're with friends and like, oh, I know how to do that, and they show somebody else something, it must have spread then throughout the community.
Speaker 2:Absolutely it does, and I think it helps with relationships as well, and it helps people feel connected through digital skills because you can share skills that you have, but it also gives you a relevant place in conversations as well. So in all of our modules we embed technical terms. The part of the reason for that is obviously for proving learning. Can you explain what this is? But it's also, if somebody is out and they're with a group of people, they might feel isolated, particularly our trainees who've got the learning disabilities. So if they hear a technical word and they think, oh, I know what that is, I can join in, I can be part of this conversation now. So, in reverse a person hearing somebody using technical terms, they may view them in a slightly different way and draw them into a conversation that they wouldn't ordinarily have done. And it gives family members and key workers. It gives confidence that somebody can use digital skills, they can be safe doing it and it's all right to allow people to go onto the internet. So that's one of the most of safety settings that you can put on now.
Speaker 2:We had one lady who didn't have access to digital skills outside of Proms. It was something that was deemed to be not for her, so by other people. That's through the digital skills project, if you like. She now has a computer at home and she has access to it. She volunteers at Crumbs now and she is able to help trainees with support, but she's able to help trainees to use their tablets as well. And this is another person who and again she's happy with me showing this with people is that for the first three weeks she came on two slightly different structured digital skills courses with me and she wouldn't touch the keyboard or the laptop for about three, four weeks. And then it was the case of well, if you could just put your name in, just start your name off. So she's starting a lovely. If you can just press this button, I've done enough for today. Okay, that's fine. So I'm going to do this and look what that button does and it's just gradually building up.
Speaker 2:It doesn't? It doesn't have to be quick and with the the virginity and good things foundation that we have the gift of time because we can. We can say. This is the person in front of me. These are the challenges they have also have to take into account, of course, that people have their own personalities, their own strengths and weaknesses, outside of any disabilities they may have. How can I get this information over in a way that makes sense to that person? So for me, that's the joy of teaching. That that's what I find. Still, I feel really exciting and I've been teaching for nearly 10 years now and the somebody's I know it's quite a cliche, isn't it the day that somebody says, oh, I get that you feel like you've done your job, but actually you really do, because that's why you're there. You're not there to say to someone look how amazing, I can use this, like I can do this on the computer. I can do that. You're there to help somebody else be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's great as well that you, you think ahead with the, the technical terms and and it's not just learning something, it's, it's it's dropping in those technical terms along the way because a lot of people would find them very daunting. But you are right, it's almost like a lot of those people are probably already doing those things as part of the crumbs projects and don't realise when they're outside of that that somebody is talking about something they can do. They just haven't heard the technical term for it. So to also include that language along the way, you must be so, so helpful for people to to know they're the types of skills that they're picking up. It's so important I I'm. I'd love to know about expansion for the the crumbs project. So are there plans to expand the projects into reach a wider audience, and how can other communities or organisations collaborate if they want to replicate the crumbs project success?
Speaker 2:okay. So we are extremely keen to expand. So we've become a member of the national digital inclusion network. It's quite a long thing to say and people are starting to come interested in what we're doing and we share what we've learned at crumbs. We want to share it with people because our project has gone from from from nothing. Really. It's something that we've built and adapted as we've gone along. So there are lots of ways that we want to expand to go outside of crumbs.
Speaker 2:We did try on the get online week this year and part of it was that we would go to local groups that we knew and we would invite them into crumbs. So all of the advertising was done again, cakes were made and what we hadn't taken into account is that lots of people who these particular two groups that we worked and wanted to work with, they had their own learning challenges and disabilities. So thinking about it afterwards because it wasn't a success that particular branch of it, but what we did learn was hugely useful and we can employ that next year. So the plan is to take us to them because they will have their public transport needs coming over to us. I hadn't really thought it through. It's quite a long way to come.
Speaker 2:Actually going out outside of where you know is all can also be a challenge for people. So what we need to do is take our bandwagon, if you like, and we need to take it to them. So that's part of our plan to to draw people in and so they can see what we, what we're offering them, and so there are nine modules and they're varied. We have some e-learning as well, so we've got five of our modules that are linked to to the digital skills are online so people can access those, and also we have to be said that we've found learn my way extremely useful as well, so that's another thing that you can take out and into the community and you can show to people, because, again, going on to a new site, if you're not used to using computers, the biggest thing that I remember people saying to me when I was teaching people getting ready for employment and they didn't have the digital skills, was I'm frightened to press that button in case it's a wrong button to press.
Speaker 2:So I think helping people to get over that hurdle by being in their community would be really good, and we also have a new project that we're applying for funding on, which is community digital skills training at Hibble Court. So again, we're adjusting what we offer because you have to try things out. Not everything's going to work for everybody all of the time, but you just have to take what you learn from that and then maybe adjust what you do or think. Actually that's not going to work for us, but we have 40 residents at Hibble Court, so we now have an initial poster, if you like, that's going to go out, and also a form asking people what they would like to be included, because it's all very well thinking. Well, a person over 65 must need these skills, these skills and these skills, but they may not have those skills already or there might be one particular thing that they need to concentrate on.
Speaker 2:So our idea is to to what we are doing here draw people in gently and then, if people want to take part in an informal session or an informal course, they might be more minded to join something slightly more structured. So we would like to offer over 40 weeks of the year, excluding holidays, two hours a week to the residents at Hippod Court. And also we've started to have ex-trainees who are coming back for digital skills training, which is really lovely. They're realising the value. They've got a certain skillset. They've gone out into either paid or volunteer work and they're actually recognising that there are still gaps maybe, and so they're coming back to revisit and refresh those. So that's really that's really interesting. And then the third thing that we're looking at through the PowerUp programme there's a summative assessment at the end and part of that is the Gateway Essential Digital Skills Qualification. So I've been following that up and we are looking seriously at applying to become a provider. So a lot of four of our modules are reflected in the qualification for entry level three. So it's a very easy jump for us to be able to offer a recognised qualification for people.
Speaker 2:So some of our trainees what can limit them and this is from feedback from them is going into an environment they don't know and trying to do a course. So we have tied up as well with a local school opposite us, longspee, and we've just started. We started last week using their Digital Skills Hub. The trainees have to sign in again through the reception and they have to go into a classroom where not everything's going to work the first time, just like when you go on a course, there's always one or two people. If you've got a room of 10 people, there will always be someone who can't access virtually anything. It's not their fault, it's just that's life and that's what happens. So barriers like that are huge for our trainees for most of our trainees. So if we can, the more experiences we can give them, the better of being able to take their learning on themselves, and also that's what we would like to do with people outside of Proms. We'd like them just to. We'll give them the gentle start and the foundation and the confidence, and then they can go on to explore and do what they need to do.
Speaker 2:So that might be looking at doctor and dentists services online. You might be looking after their own well-being. It could be employability skills, which we look at online application forms so hugely daunting. If you've missed that altogether, I still, when I teach certain courses, I would go in and do a practice application form and even though it was only a practice and even though I'd done lots of them in this particular job, it still makes you think I'm filling out a form. What if I get it wrong? What if I do this? What if I don't save it, which I did do one day, which was a joy, so I had to do it all over again. So it's all these kinds of considerations that can stop people taking that first step.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love the fact that you mentioned there about going to local communities, and so people feel like they're not out of their own environment, because I wanted to ask you about what local businesses and institutions can do and their role in supporting initiatives like yourself to address the digital skills gap. I suppose a lot of that comes down to offering space, doesn't it, and so you can go into those local communities and be closer to the people that need your help.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And also we have portable equipment. We were very lucky. We've got a lovely smart screen which obviously is static. We can take it with in-crumbs, but we can't take it with us out anywhere else. But we also have tablets and we have laptops. They're all portable. We can take all of those with us.
Speaker 2:And yes, lots of community groups may want to do something, but the outlay can be daunting and working your way through the grant application things can be daunting. So if we can say, if that's a barrier for you, well actually it's not a barrier anymore because there are ways around that and we're portable, so we can come to you and say it may be that you build relationships with people through informal sessions and then say this is what, if you can get yourself to crumbs, then you can come into the digital skills suite. You can do this. You can do that for employment purposes, but also for quality of life, social interaction, connections, a sense of place in community. Sometimes it is you might desperately want to join a club, but you have to fill out an online form and you don't know how to do that, how to start, or you don't have the equipment to be able to do that. So it's not necessarily a formal instruction that we're developing people. It's just how to live their lives and the part of the digital plays in that we can help people with those steps. That's our long term aim. So it's to do a qualified, recognised course for people that they can take out. And if somebody some of our trainees, because they've got disabilities, sometimes people put them in a little box and they might say, well, that's obviously what you're capable of without knowing anything about a human being, they'll just think I'll keep that person safe, I'll let them do that, I won't let them do anything else, whereas if they can have a qualification from outside, it's not just us saying it, somebody else saying it, which is actually the brilliant thing about being here at Crumbs, with it being such an nurturing environment.
Speaker 2:Our head trainer, dave, has a lovely story that he tells about a man going into a pet shop and he sees a small fish in a small tank and then he goes around the corner and he sees the same type of fish in a slightly larger tank. And then he goes around another corner and he sees a huge, great big fish, the same type but in a big tank, and he asked the shopkeeper how he managed to find three fish that would fit into those three size boxes. And the man at the shop said they were all the same size. They grow into their box. And that is teaching teaching not as in teaching and dictating to people and giving them information, but allowing people to learn.
Speaker 2:You don't know where a person is going to go. So, yes, a person could be very happy in the small place, which is perfectly fine, that's where they're happy to be, but they might want to be in the next box, they might want to be in the next one, they might go anywhere at all. And that's what Crumbs does. It looks at people and it says let's have our training so that you can achieve this. And if it's independent skills, for example, that you're looking for an independent living, we can help you with that. If you want to take it to a more professional base, we can help you with that as well. So it's recognizing that you don't know where people can go and it's helping outside organizations where our trainees might volunteer and job placements. We're working with Send For as well to help the transition for our trainees to get into paid employment. And it's saying to people if you give somebody the skills and it's interesting to them watch where they can go, and that's what's lovely.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. And I'm wondering as well our ladies listening that might want to get involved and volunteer with you how can they do that?
Speaker 2:All right. So what they need to do is they need to phone Crumbs or look on our website as well. We've got a section with the drop down box, which is one of the technical words that some of our trainees were using. And when I said, and what is the drop down box? I don't know, let's just go into the computer. What are you using that? Well, I'm just going into here. There's your drop down box. So if anybody would like to volunteer with Crumbs, they can go onto the website and they can find the information on there very easily. You can also phone 01202 519 320 and you can have a chat.
Speaker 2:People come to volunteer at Crumbs. Sometimes they come to volunteer because they have time. This is based on my experience as well. It can be because you're wanting to improve the skill set, or it can be that you have a skill set already and you'd like to share that with people. So we're catering and hospitality based. There's also front of office housekeeping and, most importantly, is the kitchen and bakery. So if anybody will be interested in sharing their skills or learning new ones, then yes, please, please, apply.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm sure lots of our ladies it's just crossing my mind as you were saying it I'm sure loads of our ladies would love to get involved, to be able to put something on their CVs, to be helping other people would be fantastic. So, to all of our listeners, please do get in touch with the Crumbs project and Janet. We are. We are out of time. I could literally talk to you so so much longer this afternoon on this, and I would love to have you back at some point to hear about the Crumbs projects and progress and how you're doing, and to hear some more case studies as well about how all of your trainees are doing as well. So thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on here.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. I've really enjoyed it and I would love to come back at any time in the future. I've got lots of case studies.
Speaker 1:Good, good Is it? Everybody listening, as always. Thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.