According to a recent survey from Startup Genome, only 15% of tech start-up founders are female!
Alongside the fact that women are still underrepresented in tech on the whole, what more can be done to help female founders establish their tech businesses?
We’re joined by one woman whose done just that - Sarah Dowzell, Founder, Natural HR!
Sarah began developing her entrepreneurial spirit while trading on the stock market from the age of 18. By 21, she’d purchased her own cleaning company — an experience that saw her hone the skills that would, one day, prove invaluable. However as the company progressed, she found herself bogged down by HR processes.
Looking to technology, Sarah recognised a gap in the market. Determined to fill it, she instigated a solution via her technology-savvy husband, Jason, who built brand-new software. Having proved helpful for Sarah, the couple shared the programme online for free. But, as utilisation increased, the duo saw an opportunity to monetise the platform — and it’s from here that Natural HR was born.
Now a wife, mum of two, founder and chief operating officer of Natural HR, Sarah oversees the wider operations of the business while retaining a key role in customer success — a unique selling point for the brand.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
According to a recent survey from Startup Genome, only 15% of tech start-up founders are female!
Alongside the fact that women are still underrepresented in tech on the whole, what more can be done to help female founders establish their tech businesses?
We’re joined by one woman whose done just that - Sarah Dowzell, Founder, Natural HR!
Sarah began developing her entrepreneurial spirit while trading on the stock market from the age of 18. By 21, she’d purchased her own cleaning company — an experience that saw her hone the skills that would, one day, prove invaluable. However as the company progressed, she found herself bogged down by HR processes.
Looking to technology, Sarah recognised a gap in the market. Determined to fill it, she instigated a solution via her technology-savvy husband, Jason, who built brand-new software. Having proved helpful for Sarah, the couple shared the programme online for free. But, as utilisation increased, the duo saw an opportunity to monetise the platform — and it’s from here that Natural HR was born.
Now a wife, mum of two, founder and chief operating officer of Natural HR, Sarah oversees the wider operations of the business while retaining a key role in customer success — a unique selling point for the brand.
SheCanCode is a collaborative community of women in tech working together to tackle the tech gender gap.
Join our community to find a supportive network, opportunities, guidance and jobs, so you can excel in your tech career.
Hello everyone, thank you for tuning in Again. I am Katie Baseman, the content director at she Can Code, and today the title for this episode is how I Built a Tech Business as a Female Founder. Now, we all know that women are still underrepresented in tech on the whole. What about female founders? What more can be done to help female founders establish their own tech businesses? Luckily, I'm joined by one woman who has established her own tech business, sarah Dowsall, co-founder of Natural HR, and she's here today to share our own journey and advice with us. Sarah, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you, I know you are a super busy lady and we want to hear all about your day and how you started the business and we're going to kick off. If it's okay, can we start off with a bit of background about you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, Sarah Dowsall. I live in the Midlands, as you can probably tell, 35, mum of two and married to the co-founder of Natural HR, so we started the business together as husband and wife.
Speaker 1:And how is that going, as husband and wife Only in the business?
Speaker 2:Well, we've made it through from an idea bootstrapping, then investment scaling up, all the way through to exit and now into our brand new home. So it's been a hell of a journey, but we've got through it Good.
Speaker 1:Good. And so one day we were just just just chatting and said you know what? I think we should start a business. Well, what on earth? How did that? How did the idea come about? What did you both do before?
Speaker 2:So I always knew I wanted to go into business. That was my absolute goal in life in my late teens to go into business. But when I met Jason, he was working in tech. I ended up actually with a cleaning business to start with, and it was through that business that everything was done on paper around employing people. So if we had a new staff member start, they would fill in a new starter form, literally on paper, to gather up all of their personal details. If they were going on holiday, they would put in a holiday request form and then the big thing was around the hours that the cleaners worked to be able to pay them. So that was done on paper, also based time sheets. I used to buy those, leave them at the location of each office that was being cleaned and they'll be posted back to me each week. But the hours worked for the payroll. Quite often it would be I forgot to pop it in the post or I'd get a text saying I've worked these hours or a text saying I'm off sick and it was all just.
Speaker 2:Even as a micro business, having everything on paper, it wasn't great and that's what we thought would be an idea to explore for Jason's tech background, he wanted to go into developing something himself and I had this need to say, okay, what can we do here? And this was back in 2012. So today it's probably really easy to think, oh you know, there's technology that exists for that, but back then, software as a service SAS as we know it today just wasn't a thing. You could get a disk of software to install and you know, I think back to when I was at school and we did IT on learning how to build a Microsoft Access database or something got it many years ago and that's how software used to look. Back then. It wasn't a great experience. So he created something, initially for me to use around the hours that were worked and records for people's employment, and it just grew from there, really because that was.
Speaker 2:I guess it was partly timing because that was the time that actually tech then started to become a thing over the next few years and businesses were looking to the cloud for their software needs and I would speak to other small micro business owners and they would say things like oh, we use spreadsheets for this, or this is how we're running our holidays, and it was apparent that there was a need for something greater. So we just kept adding to what was a free tool initially. When we put it online to start with and it became Jason's hobby and it was something that I helped support our free user base to use and it reached a point where that many people signed up, we thought actually this is snowballed into something much bigger than what we'd imagined and it was costing us money to hold secure. I was having to support customers using how do I use this software? That sort of thing and we realized actually we've got something here. We need to monetize it and focus on how can we make this a business.
Speaker 1:And it was almost an accident that we then became a tech business and the whole journey I've been on through that initial experience of finding a gap in the market and a business need- I hear so many stories on here about how people get into tech and I never know what people are going to say and how they fell in and the conversations that happen where you eventually end up in the tech industry.
Speaker 1:I have heard a couple of ladies say my husband worked in tech and I saw that that was a really good industry. I rarely speak to ladies who say we went into business together so that's even nicer, but you are such a great example of a lady that fell into the tech industry and didn't have to have a technical background and just flourished from there, which is something that we really advocate at Shee Can Code and something that we so love to hear. I wanted to ask you just quickly then, on not having a technical background, did you find that slightly daunting at first or did you just think actually as part of our business? My husband does that and there's lots of other things and lots of other roles that I need to do as part of our tech business. Actually not technical at all, which is also another misconception about becoming into tech.
Speaker 2:In the early days, it was actually the commercial aspect of the business itself that I felt more insecure about than the tech. So Jason is a little bit older, had a corporate background, whereas I'm someone that's climbed through in life and made their way, because before the cleaning business, I started on a stock market, then it went self-employed and then I ended up where I needed to be on that journey into creating something that was mine, and it used to be that. I would feel I've not had that corporate background, I've not had the training that he's had, I've not had the leadership coaching, and I felt a little bit uncomfortable initially when we were raising investment and I was the only woman in the room and everyone was a lot older, and I just felt like, oh my gosh, I don't belong here. He knows how to do this. He stands up and presents in front of people for a living, and it was actually that that I felt more uncomfortable with to start with. Now, though, I'd walk in the room with my head held high, and I'd encourage any other young woman to do the same, because you're just growing confidence on that journey With tech.
Speaker 2:You write, though Jason's background was tech, mine was more business operations. I have a business degree as well as HR background, so we naturally went into the roles that we do and have a background and expertise in and I've probably never really thought, oh, I'm not a techie, I don't really belong. I think it's really opened my eyes having a tech business, how many different roles are outside of developing software. So, even supporting our customers, you need to understand our technology through to designing the product, engaging with customers. We use our own, we always use that own software. That was something that I really think has helped us as a tech business. The team use the software. It helps them when they're talking to prospects, customers, and it just became almost a focus on the software as opposed to tech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's brilliant to hear so many of our members of our community always wonder about that. Do I have to be technical? Do I have to know all about software? Do I have to know how to code? And then, actually, when you hear about the different roles in technology, as you said, there are so many that people don't even know about and that's how spilling the tea came about dipping into different tech careers for more people to hear that what actually life is like working in the tech industry and what you would actually be doing. I wanted to ask you about being an entrepreneur because you had a business beforehand, and do you think that that's for everybody? Do you think anyone can be an entrepreneur and do you think you have to have that entrepreneurial spirit?
Speaker 2:So I think, can anyone be an entrepreneur? Yes, but can you really go for it and succeed? I think that comes down to mindset. I think you've really got to have a mindset of wanting to do this. It's not a get rich quick type of thing. I think it's really easily, particularly today. I'm not big into social media and influencing, but I can see how, for the younger generation, it looks like something quick and easy. It looks very glamorous. Actually, building a business from scratch all the way through to exit is a long, hard slog. It's not very rewarding in those early days. It's times where you go to bed at night you carry it all in your head. You don't switch off from it, particularly when you're married to the other co -founders. You go to bed having conversations, you get up and your day starts with whatever is that's on your mind about business. Today it becomes all-inconsuming. It is your life. So for me I'd say a founder's never really been a divide between past life, business life. It's all just become one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but so far so good. So, in terms of being a female founder, what has been your proudest moment so far? I mean, obviously you said it's taken, it is you're running for the long run and it does take a while to get there. What's your proudest moment or any moments throughout that that you thought you know? Well, actually, this is going to work. We're going to do this.
Speaker 2:I think initially, when we raised our first round of investment back in 2015, it felt like that validation that it actually is a good business idea. We run to something here. That was a proud moment Opening our first office, taking on our first team member, all the way through to winning awards. Obviously, I've got to say exit is a proud moment because that was the ultimate goal. But I think there's lots of little steps on that journey and you've really got so much. Advice to anyone is, if you're in that journey is actually step back and take stock and celebrate those little successes that you have along the way and recognise them.
Speaker 1:I suppose it's quite easy to get lost in that journey as well and, like you said, if it's every day and it's all consuming, I suppose it's quite easy to not take a step back and remember actually where we started and to celebrate all those little things Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You can be so inwardly focused and all you think about is the problems in your business and the things that you need to fix, and actually you don't recognise what's working well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned a little bit earlier about when you went for investment and what that felt like, especially as a woman. Other challenges along the way what challenges have you faced and how did you overcome them?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think investment was probably the first challenge for me and for me it was really a confidence thing now looking back, because actually my knowledge would be the same knowledge that I have today, or it's grown my knowledge of what we were doing, why we were doing it, that there was a business need. It came from my own business needs, it was validated by other small business owners. I think it was overcoming that with the confidence that actually I do know what I'm talking about. I am competent in this area. Other challenges, I'd say finding the right team members with the right skills.
Speaker 2:That has been people is a big part of every business and that comes with its own sets of challenges, from hiring the right skills through to things that happen along the way dynamics of team members, the culture of the business. As you grow, that obviously changes the pace of changing the business. Challenges manage a different stakeholder, so we went through a number of investment rounds and there's various different shareholders to navigate through that. So suddenly it wasn't just our decisions anymore 100% hours and we can do what we like. So I'd say that was a challenge that lots of businesses face when they do raise investment on that journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the fact that you pointed out about staff and finding good talent and I completely agree with that. In terms of startups and it's a conversation that we have often at she Can Code as well about being a smaller company and finding people that are really interested in being part of your journey and your story and really backing that, because those types of people they're very, very different compared to people that want to work in a corporate. They like the data, they want to kind of disappear into the corporate framework and just get on with their job, whereas in a startup there's just nowhere to hide. You start off with one small job and that expands into everything because there's no one else there at that point and as lovely as that can be, and you learn so many new skills that you wouldn't have learned at a corporate, sometimes that can be incredibly challenging. So have you found that type of thing when hiring staff?
Speaker 1:It takes a certain, not a crazy, person but a certain type of person that wants to be part of a startup culture, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Yeah, in the early days I remember looking for people that you feel, at all round us they're going to get their sleeves rolled up and as you start growing, you then start thinking, actually I need someone who's done this before, who has that expertise that we need to bring into the business. And then made that mistake of thinking, oh, look at that person, look what they've done. You just bring them into the business and actually take away that infrastructure around them. And then not, you realise it's not them alone, it's everything around them. Yes, they might be absolutely brilliant at their job, but in an environment where they've got that structure and process in place and other team members to draw upon, Definitely yeah. And it's disruptive then, because you're back into that cycle of needing to hire again. You're doing the job while you're hiring again. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I personally love the startup environment. It's that you get to see something grow and somebody's story really take off, and it's so much easier to say do you remember last year when it was just a couple of us and we grew to this and then we moved offices several times? And all of that is really lovely and it's not for everybody. I was at a company for years and we moved offices eight times and it was so much fun, but I also know a lot of the people there were quite unnerved by the whole thing. But we're moving again. It's kind of just picking people that are up for being part of your journey. It's so important. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about being an entrepreneur, because working for a startup is one thing, but being an entrepreneur is another. So what are important skills to have as an entrepreneur, do you think?
Speaker 2:I think you've got the technical skills you need to understand your business. I am someone that would need a calculator to do what people could probably add up in the head, and I think that can put a lot of people off, because finance is so important in business. But if you are like me and you find numbers daunting, it's about learning how to understand what this means, how to understand this profit and loss in front of me. What's it telling me about my business? So employ people to do the jobs that you know you're lacking whether you're outsourcing your accountancy or you've got a management accountant in, but they might be doing the job. But make sure you understand the data that's being presented back to you and understand where your business is at.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, as an entrepreneur, you're growing a business for a particular reason Business growth is important because you need that business growth to get anywhere. So you know someone with, whether it's a commercial background or recognising actually I'm not strong at selling I need to bring someone in to do that. So, being very aware of your own weaknesses as well, I'd say. But then, aside from the technical things, I think there's a whole mindset piece, because actually it is very different to be an entrepreneur and it's very lonely and you know there's no one else that's going to get you through it. You've got to keep pushing yourself through it, day after day. So, 100%, you know what can you do to develop yourself as a person. That's what's going to get you through.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and you know that's brilliant advice as well about you mentioned about being aware of your own weaknesses as well, because there is that thing about founders I'm assuming you've heard the expression founders syndrome but there are some people who start businesses and then they just they almost can't relinquish the control and, as you said, finding good people to take over to do things that you can't do because you've identified your own weaknesses. You think actually I need a really strong team that know all the things that I don't know to be able to move this business forward, which is obviously you know how you've gone from strength to strength just to realise that you don't need to know everything as well.
Speaker 2:No, you don't. But it's hard. I've been there, it's, you know. I know that feeling. It feels stressful to delegate. You're scared and you think of all these scenarios and you had what happened to this, what happens to that. But you just building yourself up and up to have more and more to do and make the business like successful if you're not there.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah and just yeah, strengthening it as as you go, and there have been many reports about female founders struggling to secure funding. You mentioned your own journey and challenges as well yourself. Do you have any tips or advice for this, or is there anything you wish somebody had told you back when you went for funding?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's something that I'd say. I've been involved in a lot over the last few years and I've been involved in report launches in Westminster about you know, what can we do at a government level? What change do we need? And I'd say the most interesting thing that really resonated with me a couple of years ago, on one of the female founder forum reports I attended, was a statistic that found that one in 14 age girls couldn't name a female entrepreneur and I just thought how is that possible? Because I look back at my teens and it was when we had dragons then coming out, the apprentice starting on TV and you know I could be like, oh, karen Brady, deborah Mead, and you know there were high profile women that were known. And I'm thinking is it that? You know, life's moved on? Generations today are on social media. We're not connecting as female entrepreneurs with that audience. We're not there, as I guess, people to look up, to role models for these girls to see, actually I could have a really good career doing that and is that stopping them? You know, coming forward and going down, even setting up a business before they even get to looking at investment. But you're right, there has been a lot of research and the same reports around the lack of funding that goes to female entrepreneurs compared to their male counterparts, particularly when we compare the UK to other countries. Role models is a big part of it. But I think you know investment companies, the VCs they're starting to realise actually they need to look like approachable. You know, I know, certainly in the Midlands when I speak with them they're starting to look at how can they ensure that their workforce is representative, how can they ensure that they are reaching out to female entrepreneurs to understand their business ideas. So I think we're quite fortunate in the companies that I'm seeing they're doing that in the area. But I think there's still a lot to do overall and I think it's probably then.
Speaker 2:You know, as a woman it's hard because I had to make that choice. As a woman, I'm taking on investment in my business. You know I can't have any more children because ultimately, when you're raising £250,000, it's not like raising millions of pounds and you can employ loads of people and take maternity leave as you might do in a normal job. You know you have to look at your life and decide is this the journey that I want, because it might be that I'm putting children off for a few years, or it might be, like you know, I was quite fortunate because I knew I wanted to go in business. I had children, two boys quite young, but I did visit the bigger family that I have. But I made that decision. Actually, that journey and outcome is more important and that was the decision I took.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you're absolutely right having that decision and being able to make that decision as well. And I love the fact that that ties into those role models, because the more ladies that tell their stories and challenges like that and what actually owning your own business is a reality and even though now you're doing incredibly well, it's the reality is to what that is like and the hard decisions that you have to make personally and professionally to be able to get there. And for ladies to say that they can't even name a female entrepreneur, let alone you know, really know in depth about their stories. It is just, it's just insane really that that that ladies, that people can't name one entrepreneur, or even the ones that are there. You only hear, like the wonderful story you see, like sort of the Instagram life of somebody that's you know, like they founded a big app and sold their business and made millions. You only hear all of that stuff. You never hear of anything in between and how they actually did it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the more that the female founders share their stories, the more the better and hopefully that inspires more girls to think you know, actually I can do this and I'm aware of what my journey would be like there was a famous story of Marvellane Fox when she went for funding and she was launching lastminutecom and she got turned down several times for funding for lastminutecom. And you think, like now you think about it, you think her amazing, you know that she launched that, was one of her businesses and she sold it, but she got turned down several times, and not just for being a female. But you do think there are lots of female founders out there that just really struggled when they got started, which is a shame. And so you mentioned that you're working with government on some reports as well, and because I wanted to ask you a little bit about do you think more could be done to help female founders, but it sounds like that's already on your mind anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I don't personally. I do attend when the reports are launched in Westminster and certainly I'm very vocal on my views and sharing things like that online, and the idea is that hopefully, in doing that, it does facilitate change looking at all party parliamentary groups, making sure that there is feedback going in from people like me and, in terms of the challenges that are faced, what lives really like on the ground. That that's going into people who are, at the end of the day, in government to represent us or making the laws that we hopefully abide by in the main.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's interesting as well that you want to go down that route, because so far all of your steps professionally have been kind of I felt there was a need in my business, so I launched a business to close that gap, and actually you've even noticed that there is a need to help female founders and you've moved forward to try and close that gap as well, which is, it just seems far more genuine than somebody that is just trying to pull together a journey along the way, you've always noticed a need for something and stepped into that. I suppose that's a quality of an entrepreneur, isn't it? You spot an opportunity and go for it.
Speaker 2:But really, yeah, that certainly is my personal plan. I would love to do more in that area and even that's something where I've thought a little bit like you know, that initial journey as an entrepreneur and a commercial person always is me. You know, I'm very aware when I go down to Westminster that actually I don't sound quite like everyone else when I talk. I've become a little bit more aware of how I sound and you know that journey again is I recognise that and to catch you know, I had that feeling back 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Look at me now. Actually I do belong here. I've got something to say. I've had a very valid journey that will be reflective of many other women and the challenges that they faced, and we need to make sure that's raised and we need to make sure that we're bringing the change that we want to see.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, I love everything you just said there. I couldn't agree more. And, as we said earlier, the more that people share those stories and the more that people hear accents and that there are lots of different ladies from lots of different backgrounds and walks of life, and the more that that inspires other people to go for it. Because once you've always got those very senior ladies that are role models from you know similar backgrounds, then it kind of you look and you think you know what. I'm so far from that. I just cannot move into something like that. I just haven't got it in me to launch a business like you did, because you just cannot relate to some of those ladies, as wonderful as they are, I just can't see it.
Speaker 1:But the more that people share those stories, that just really inspires other people to think you know what? Actually I could give that a go. Baby steps, but I could give that a go. We're going to talk a little bit about advice. Do you have any advice for anyone thinking about launching a business? And this is that anything you wish somebody had told you before you went into launching your own business.
Speaker 2:Well, firstly, you can do it. You can do this. That is the biggest thing that I think, stops people Go and look in the mirror and tell yourself you can do this and really believe it to start with, but you've got to have a plan. You know, yes, we did things where you kind of fall into it, but actually you can't keep operating like that. You need to come up with a plan. Are you hitting that plan? Do you need to take a different direction? That's my biggest advice the confidence to do it and actually taking a logical view. Then, as you're doing it, it might be something that you absolutely love and really enjoy, but is it what you want to be doing with your life? You know, if you're a serious entrepreneur wanting to make money at this, are you on the right path? Or actually is it just a hobby that you really enjoy and you're not actually looking for that full journey of scaling up a business through to exit? But you found something that you want to do with your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when you came up with that plan and you were finding that advice to change directions, did you call upon any networks for that? Or did you not realise at the time perhaps when you were quite new in launching your own business that there are support groups out there? How did you do that? Did you go to meetups or what was that like?
Speaker 2:An interesting question because I'd say it's really from when I was 21 years old that I became what I would call an entrepreneur. You know how I've recognised today that time and it meant that I didn't have any friends because suddenly I wasn't going out. My life had taken a very different direction and my business came fast. So it's very lonely and I didn't really know where to find people like me. I didn't really have my people. So I spent a lot of time you know, never really exploring that, and I am a very social person.
Speaker 2:I do like going out, making connections, and I did try, particularly because we've been Birmingham City Centre, there are events on and when I started going to a few things I just felt like I didn't really belong. You know it didn't feel right. I felt that there was a lot for very early stage start-up businesses, particularly businesses where you know people are perhaps doing it more as a sideline, hobby and interest, and I felt like actually I've got this really big idea. This is how we're going to get around people that are on that same journey, and it took quite a few years to do that.
Speaker 2:It wasn't until I became part of a local female entrepreneur network in Birmingham that I actually then found my people and once I was in that room with women that are, like me, running their own businesses and we meet once a month before COVID would meet face to face. Obviously, we went a bit more, you know, teensy during COVID, but we still try and meet every quarter or seven and socialise. Having that network has been invaluable and actually as part of that, one of the first events I remember attending as that group was forming was Jenny Campbell was a speaker at the event and she came to speak to the female entrepreneur network and she said you cannot be an island when you're in business. And I thought that's me. I was an island because, you know, I didn't have anyone outside of my husband, the kids of the business.
Speaker 2:That was it. I was the island and it made me realise once I was around people having conversations like this. You know, getting on a call, you can be vulnerable. You're in a safe place. You speak into ladies that have just had someone walk out and they don't know what to do in their team through to you know, a customer kicking off about something that's about to blow up into a legal situation. Actually, I'm now having conversations that I recognise and I feel part of and you know we're there to support each other and you might not always have had that experience, but you can learn from someone else's or you're a shoulder to cry on.
Speaker 2:If someone's really having a tough time, you can say, well, actually I had this happen. This is how I dealt with it. What about if I put you in touch with this person? That's been absolutely invaluable to me finding people on a similar journey. But it's difficult getting there because you know it's not like there's. You know there's so many different groups now for business and you don't really know whether it's the sort of thing you're looking for when you go along. It is hard to do, but I'd say once you start connecting with people in your industry and locally in your area doing similar things. Make the effort, go grab a coffee with them, look to form a group together. That's ultimately what we did. We formed a group together and became that network and you know we keep going now with that.
Speaker 1:Yes and oh gosh. The power of a community and our community tells us a similar story. When you just meet somebody who is just like you and they say something and you immediately think I thought I was the only one that was feeling that way and as an entrepreneur, that must have been a brilliant feeling just to hear somebody else say you know what, we're having a similar problem. You must have had those moments where you kind of think I might go in crazy. Is it just me? I'm just asking them to hear from somebody else. I mean, that must have been a bit of a light bulb moment where you're like this is not just me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think yeah. You just become so focused on your business you can't see beyond your own business and you focus almost on the negatives and don't realize that actually all the other businesses around you have got their own unique challenges and problems every day, yeah, because on the surface everyone else looks fabulous.
Speaker 1:You know they're like us, looking at, gliding along like a swan and under the pond. You know their legs are going and they're all having the same problems as you. But people don't share that, do they? Obviously, because you know they're building a brand and building their business. But to hear about that thing actually you know what we're doing, something similar and we will get there and you have got there. But just to hear that you know it's not just you and I suppose also comparing yourself as well, because, as you said, you're gonna be thinking about all the negatives and every day that's going to be part of your life and be thinking, actually we need to do this and we haven't done this. And actually to hear other people you might have had that thought at some point, surely where you thought, actually we're not that bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100 to spend, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to share stories is invaluable. One last question. We're almost out of time. What is next for natural HR? What are your plans next? What do you envision?
Speaker 2:So we were required back in March, earlier this year, and the plan at the moment is integrating the two software products. So we're primarily a HR software tool, our aquaver. They have a suite of products but they're primarily known for their payroll. So at the moment the focus is very much on bringing the two together. So that's integrating both the business but also the technology into the new, what would be the flagship product going forward into the future. And that's really nice to know that I've created something that's gonna live on. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and a new chapter and something new for your journey, for you and your husband. How does your husband feel about being a founder? Was he a founder before? You said he worked in he had the corporate training, so that must have been quite new for him as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he'd done a few little things in life.
Speaker 2:He was around when eBay was becoming a thing and all that, so he'd done a few little online things, but mainly his corporate career in tech was his main background, but he'd always wanted to go into business too. So actually it's quite. It's probably a whole story of how, when we met, we met specifically because I went online looking for someone to go into business with. That was basically the dating profile was essentially a job description. You have to be looking to go into business, you have to have family values, you have to wanna create something and have some get up and go and vision in life.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm looking for, oh, amazing. Well, I haven't heard a story like that before. I hope so, but it's good to hear that it has been successful for both of you, and we would love to have you back at some stage to hear about natural HR's progression and how you're flourishing as a business and also as a female founder. So, sarah, we're already out of time, so thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a pleasure to hear all about your story, so thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It's been lovely to share.
Speaker 1:Thank you and to all of our listeners as always, thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you again next time.